9mm vs. 45 ACP

[DocSkinner]

All of you millions of people that have died from 9mm pistol wounds please stand up - they aren't really lethal!

[DocSkinner]

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html

So I'm finally 21 now and want to get a handgun. I've had experience shooting both 9 and 45 and I'm be on the paper with both. I've shot SIGs, 1911s, Kimbers, and Glocks. I'm not a fan of trigger safety's but am leaning toward a Glock because they are cheap and reliable.

My question to you all is which would be a better caliber to get and the choices being 9mm or 45 ACP. This gun would be an all around gun for messing around at the range, ranch, and home defense. I was leaning towards a 9mm at the beginning because its a small round thats easy to find and my gf could use it if needed. But at Thanksgiving dinner last night I was swayed more towards the 45 now because my uncle (fire fighter out of Los Gatos) said that 45 would be a better choice because it's a big heavy piece of lead that will stop a lot of things and they won't go through walls like a 9mm would.

Help?

[DocSkinner]

the search is weak with this one!

The search is OVERLOADED with this one!

[Code7inOaktown]

How could a 9mm hollow point do more damage than a .45 hollow point? Bigger bullet more energy and a bigger "spread".

If cost is a major factor buy the 9mm now and upgrade/add later.

If someone said "You will have to face an armed intruder but you get to choose if he has a 9mm or a .45" I think most here would choose to face the 9mm.

Wow. Really, wow. There are so many different layers here I just don't know where to start. So, some dummy armed with 7 rounds of 45 cal ball? Or a 19-shot Glock 17 with +P 9mm JHPs?

Or some dummy with a 1911 that he doesn't know how to operate properly (you know, does he know he has to actually bring that hammer back for the first round?) and cannot actually accurately shoot or a guy with a 15-shot DA/SA that's pretty idiot proof?

I am just not sure what the point is here? It's not something as crazy as what bullet would you rather be shot with is it? Usually the answer is no bullet.

[negolien]

Honestly the 9mm is probably your best bet. It's easy to shoot and cheap. I myself own 2 large caliber handguns (G20 and a kimber Custom II) and love em both. They do cost a bit to shoot and are a handful though to be honest. I do however have complete and utter confidence that if I have to shoot someone in a SHTF scenario they will go down in a large bloody heap of flesh lol.

[tboyer]

I'm going to post this on a gay hippie usernet group

.45 OBVIOUSLY 9mm be fur dem queermahsexuahls. Hell 9mm won't even break the skin of a pack a cards XD.


Honestly doesn't really matter. Rent a few and choose ur favorite.

[sd_shooter]

Wow. Really, wow. There are so many different layers here I just don't know where to start. So, some dummy armed with 7 rounds of 45 cal ball? Or a 19-shot Glock 17 with +P 9mm JHPs?

Or some dummy with a 1911 that he doesn't know how to operate properly (you know, does he know he has to actually bring that hammer back for the first round?) and cannot actually accurately shoot or a guy with a 15-shot DA/SA that's pretty idiot proof?

I am just not sure what the point is here? It's not something as crazy as what bullet would you rather be shot with is it? Usually the answer is no bullet.

The guy didn't say anything about getting a 1911. Let's level the playing field and say the firearm to be purchased will have a capacity of 10 rounds regardless of the platform - because we live in CA!

If the OP is just starting to buy guns (probably true since he just turned 21), it really doesn't matter regarding 9mm/40/45 or glock/XD/SIG/1911. Buy a gun, keep it if you like it. If you don't like it, get something else when you can afford it.

Just don't become a rabid fanboy of any caliber or manufacturer and you'll have a lot more fun.

My advice:
1) Get a .22 first. Practice as much as you want, never sell this gun to anyone.
2) Then get a 9mm. If finances permit, proceed to step 3.
3) Get a 40/45/357/10mm or whatever
4) Repeat step 3

[dandechino]

I bought the Glock 19 9mm for my first gun. If I could do it over again, I would get the Glock 17 to have a little more grip to hang on to. I agree with the above post to get a .22 first. One of the greatest joys in life is plinking away with a .22 for CHEAP. This will also develop good motor skill acquisition with all the many hours of practice this allows. Unless self-defense is one of your primary reasons for purchasing the pistol, I say go .22. I'm fine with the 9mm for defense too.

[Uriah02]

There was a lot of good dialog in this thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=362162

[Striker]

My advice, for what it's worth, is to go to the range several times before you buy. Try every pistol you even remotely think you might want to buy. A Glock does not handle like a Sig, and neither handles like a 1911. Find guns you shoot well, regardless of whether it's a 9mm or a .45 and make your choice based on that. Taking a basic handgun course might give you some insight as well. Hope this is helpful.

[mif_slim]

Read my sig. That's why I would choose a 45 any day

[SixPointEight]

Fail for not having a sig show up

[OC-Indian]

Wow. Really, wow. There are so many different layers here I just don't know where to start. So, some dummy armed with 7 rounds of 45 cal ball? Or a 19-shot Glock 17 with +P 9mm JHPs?

Or some dummy with a 1911 that he doesn't know how to operate properly (you know, does he know he has to actually bring that hammer back for the first round?) and cannot actually accurately shoot or a guy with a 15-shot DA/SA that's pretty idiot proof?

I am just not sure what the point is here? It's not something as crazy as what bullet would you rather be shot with is it? Usually the answer is no bullet.

Excellent contribution to the thread. Gosh you are cool.

[HK416]

.45 hands down

[Katana]

A picture is worth a thousand words:



Dont be a fool: Choose the right (caliber)

For those that say "shot placement": Not everyone can be a super ninja with spidey-like senses to place a single deadly shot in the perfect little place on a moving/running/jumping target, while the adrenaline's pumping and nerves are kicked into high gear. I think most shooters, especially combat veterans, would agree that no amount of range practice can fully nor adequately prepare you for how you will react when the situation is real. Yes, shot placement is critical, and one should do all they can to ensure that they can put a shot where they want it to go. But let's be realistic, you're not gonna sit there and aim your shot right in the perfect area of the heart or head: You're gonna be aiming for ""body MOA". Having a greater chance of damaging a critical area on a target due to a caliber's larger hydrostatic shock should be a no-brainer. Why not opt for the more damaging bullet AND practice more with it? Get your shot placement down, then if that fails, maybe the increased bullet size will do it

I'm not sure where you got that photo, but if it's from Dr. Gary K. Roberts' (DocGKR) post on M4Carbine.net, you overlooked the explanation that he included with it—"As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage." (emphasis his)

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

He goes on to say— "Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm ."

Here is a quote from that FBI report:

"The tissue disruption caused by a handgun bullet is limited to two mechanisms. The first, or crush mechanism is the hole the bullet makes passing through the tissue. The second, or stretch mechanism is the temporary cavity formed by the tissues being driven outward in a radial direction away from the path of the bullet. Of the two, the crush mechanism, the result of penetration and permanent cavity, is the only handgun wounding mechanism which damages tissue. To cause significant injuries to a structure within the body using a handgun, the bullet must penetrate the structure. Temporary cavity has no reliable wounding effect in elastic body tissues. Temporary cavitation is nothing more than a stretch of the tissues, generally no larger than 10 times the bullet diameter (in handgun calibers), and elastic tissues sustain little, if any, residual damage." (emphasis mine)


Rifle calibers can generate a temporary stretch cavity capable of causing tissue and organ damage, but the only effective wounding mechanism with handgun calibers is the permanent crush cavity; i.e., the actual path the bullet itself makes. Granted, all things being equal, larger calibers make bigger holes which can result in greater blood loss—but in the time it takes to bleed out, a determined attacker can do a significant amount of damage.

Bottom line—Just putting bigger holes in your adversary is no substitute for shot placement. When using a handgun, the only reliable way to quickly stop someone is to make hits on vital structures within the body, and all the major calibers (9mm & up) have the penetration capability to achieve that end. Larger calibers such as .45 ACP can provide a slight edge, but don't underestimate 9mm—with the right load, it can work just as effectively.