Kahr's Weakness

[El Gato]

The wife has a PM 9 and a P 45...

from round one...

insert the mag...grasp the slide firmly...and attempt to rip that b*&^h off the frame...gun chambers qed....
still doing it 2 years later...
good guns...the 45 is more accurate than a kimber ucII we have....but way harder to control....

the pm 9 is my wifes daily backup gun...
she carries a spinger xd 45 compact tactical as her primary....

[l8apex]

After running 200rds or so with a PM9, no problems to rack the slide and chamber a round. I don't know why one would carry condition 2, unless you are in Israel where it is required. It takes a deliberate trigger pull on the Kahrs to fire one off.

I've seen more operator error malfs, on numerous platforms, from people 'racking' the slide [riding the slide, or half racking it] than using the slide release.

[9mmepiphany]

I don't know why one would carry condition 2, unless you are in Israel where it is required. It takes a deliberate trigger pull on the Kahrs to fire one off.

I've seen more operator error malfs, on numerous platforms, from people 'racking' the slide [riding the slide, or half racking it] than using the slide release.

a couple of minor points of correction

condition 2 is round chambered and hammer down...condition 3 is chamber empty and mag in the gun

Israel doesn't require that pistols be carried in condition 3. If you are referring to the Israeli draw, that was developed during a time when their defense forces were armed with an assortment of pistols from different sources. for a uniform manual of arms, they had their personel chamber a round on the draw. the need for this ended when they issued a standardized sidearm.

people not knowing how to correctly rack a slide is a training issue. the overhand rack works universally across multiple platforms

[stormvet]

If you dont have a round in the chamber, why carry the gun at all.

If you dont trust your gun, gear or weapon skills to carry your gun with a round in the chamber. Dont carry untill you get the training/gear you need.

[l8apex]

a couple of minor points of correction

condition 2 is round chambered and hammer down...condition 3 is chamber empty and mag in the gun

people not knowing how to correctly rack a slide is a training issue. the overhand rack works universally across multiple platforms

You are right on the condition 3 point, merely mirroring the OPs problem - see first post.

There is good logic on using the rack slide across numerous platforms, but I have yet to see a person cause a malfunction with the slide release that they wouldn't have cause with racking the slide. Can't say the same for the reverse.

In addition, some platforms may engage the safety i.e. Beretta 92FS if racked incorrectly. It took one SHFT moment in the sandbox for a team member to switch to slide release after engaging his safety after employing the rack the slide method.

YMMV, but I've seen this overhand racking the slide sling some crap at the worst possible time.

[bsg]

good thread.

[UserM4]

Who carries their gun that some courses suggest that you slam the slide home after a rack. without a round in the chamber? Plus, riding the slide and weak chambering is a problem that can happen with almost any semi auto. That's why instructors suggest that you slam the slide home after after a rack.

[ty423]

I have a Kahr P40 and during the recommended break-in I did experience some FTE and FTF but afterwards never had a problem. When it was new I had a VERY hard time releasing the slide stop to drop the slide. However I was trying to do this with an empty mag inserted. The mag spring was so strong that it was holding the slide stop pretty firmly. Now I know if I drop the mag OR have the mag loaded the slide stop releases normally.

The trigger pull is very smooth but the reset is doing another standard long pull.

[Twinsen]

Well, you're not supposed to follow the slide back in any semiauto.

I don't get this thread.

Never ease the action forward on any gun, unless you have a manual action that you plan on easing forward every single round, forever. If you ease the action forward in a gun, you seat the bullet differently and your first round in the magazine will always be a flyer. You also risk firing with the gun out of battery.

A clean new gun that doesn't like the action being eased forward just has a nice chamber and will outshoot guns that can be "eased".

Where did people learn these things? I'm gonna go buy a new Z06 and complain that the car doesn't go 205 when I slam on the gas in neutral.

[ruchik]

I have a Kahr P40 and during the recommended break-in I did experience some FTE and FTF but afterwards never had a problem. When it was new I had a VERY hard time releasing the slide stop to drop the slide. However I was trying to do this with an empty mag inserted. The mag spring was so strong that it was holding the slide stop pretty firmly. Now I know if I drop the mag OR have the mag loaded the slide stop releases normally.

The trigger pull is very smooth but the reset is doing another standard long pull.

It's a design feature. The slide lock is deliberately designed to be really hard to drop on an empty mag. It's there to tell you that you have an empty mag in your gun.

[gschoelles]

[QUOTE=
The Kahr is:
1. just as reliable for the first shot, with a nicer trigger stroke out of the box than any stock J-frame I've tried. the trigger on my CW9 rivals a stock K-frame.
2. is engineered to feed reliably through the whole mag...the offset feedramp was very innovative. the clearance drill is more complicated than another pull of the trigger...it does require the TRB
3. much thinner
4. has a 65% increase in available ammunition[/QUOTE]

+1 CW9 here worked well even during combat training

[9mmepiphany]

There is good logic on using the rack slide across numerous platforms, but I have yet to see a person cause a malfunction with the slide release that they wouldn't have cause with racking the slide. Can't say the same for the reverse.

In addition, some platforms may engage the safety i.e. Beretta 92FS if racked incorrectly. It took one SHFT moment in the sandbox for a team member to switch to slide release after engaging his safety after employing the rack the slide method.

YMMV, but I've seen this overhand racking the slide sling some crap at the worst possible time.

The Beretta is an outstanding exception to the rule, we always teach the use of the slide stop for releasing the slide on this platform.

While I have seen folks fumble the overhand rack...hence time spent teaching it correctly...releasing with the slidestop isn't without it's pitfalls.
1. Watching someone hunt for the slide stop on a Sig or H&K P7 can be very enlightening...not that we teach the overhand release with the P7.
2. The other instance that comes to mine is when the slide is closed on an empty chamber...either through missing the slide stop or having released it...pressing the slide stop on a closed slide is pretty futile too

When using a dedicated gun, you can limit your manual of arms, but it is a good thing to have additional tools in the box

[Moto4Fun]

The problem is the OP's interpretation of the kahr manual. From his post it appears that he thinks when Kahr says you should do it this way, they mean doing it any other way will be unreliable, and the gun will malfunction if you do.

As someone who writes Operator's Manuals and Service Manuals; I know that manufacturers have to write to the "Lowest common denominator". In other words manuals (that come with original equipment) contain the simplest procedures that are guaranteed to work for everyone.

My interpretation of Kahr's Manual would be: we are not responsible for malfunctions resulting from your own technique because we can't control how effectively you perform it.

[tonelar]

+1 for deliberately

This has to be fud or a worn out guide rod spring.

Where's the link of the company mentioning this problem?

It's in the owner's manual. Why carry a last ditch effort pistol in condition 3? When I carry my PM9 it has a round in the chamber.

[J&B]

+1 always

That's condition 3, bro.

Keep 1 in the chamber or stay home.

Yeah I have a K9 elite03 no problems ever chambering a round at the range with my son shooting but always carry +1 or dont carry at all. I recommend taking a handgun tactical course if you are not comfortable carrying a loaded handgun.