9mm ammo recommendations?

[Guest]

I tried pricing out ammoman for some .40 S&W 180gr Winchester USA ball ammo and found him more expensive than natchez. Unfortunate that. Same thing with 9mm--he couldn't compete with Natchez's 100 rnd box for $11.

For someone starting out I'd recommend using your practice ammo first. Shoot the "good stuff" first and you won't have anything to compare it to. Get somewhat proficient with the practice stuff and you'll notice the difference with your defense load more easily.

Personally I reload 147gr Rainier TMJ and have Ranger SXT 147gr as my defense load.

[Guest]

a few people on sigforum have spoken highly of lancer custom ammunition. if you buy in bulk (1000 rounds of 115gr 9mm FMJ) it comes out to 10.50 per hundred, but of course, you have to factor in shipping. i believe if you add it to the shopping cart, they'll calculate shipping for you. i haven't tried their ammo yet myself, but i plan to sometime in the near future. i'll update my impressions when i try it out.

[NYC2SoCal]

Originally posted by ryang:

For someone starting out I'd recommend using your practice ammo first. Shoot the "good stuff" first and you won't have anything to compare it to. Get somewhat proficient with the practice stuff and you'll notice the difference with your defense load more easily.

I agree, if you are a new shooter, practice the art of shooting, get use to the trigger, the feel of the firearm. Once you can consistently shoot your target to your satisfaction (A minimum IMHO a target the size of your hand at 10 yards), then I would find the defensive load that most similarly matches your practice load. Fire at a minimum 500 rounds of the "expensive" stuff before relying on it to save your life. ANY FTF or FTE at all, IMHO, fails for a defensive load. Each gun has its own characteristics, there's no universal ultimate ammo.

Just remember plinking ammo is $0.10 a round, defensive ammo is $0.50... That's 5x the difference. No sense in wasting money if you're just learning the art.

[rkt88edmo]

For questions like this you will probably be better served running searches on thefiringline.com and thehighroad.org

From those two sites you can probably pull down enough opinions to read for a week in your spare time, and they will be a comprehensive overview in the "calibre/cartridge choice wars"

For my Glock 19 I shoot WWB, Fiochi, and Federal...whatever (just buy any good factory ammo that you find an ok or good deal on) for practice and keep 147 grain SXT for otherwise. However, I believe that ammo choice is really a tertiary concern.

[Guest]

Hi Rokit88,

Thanks for the info. I'll check out those sites.

I didn't state that ammo choice was primary or secondary on the priority list :-) I just asked for peoples input because I was a bit overwhelmed by the choices.

What is SXT? Is that a hollow point ammunition?

At the risk of restarting this thread... :-) From my brief reading on the matter (ball v. HP), HP appears to be a bad choice if anything (dry wall, car door, lots of clothing) might get in between the tip of the bullet and the bad guy's skin. Interesting anecdotal evidence: [1] QuarterBoreGunner's experience at the National Shooting Club in Santa Clara where two hits with .45 cal. 230gr Federal Hydro-Shok JHP failed to kill/stop a bad guy (short barrel length was probably responsible); [2] US Marine shoots+kills Iraqi bad guy with one 9mm (ball) shot to the chest. Very interesting less anecdotal information: "One-Shot Drops: Surviving the Myth"

Rich

[Guest]

Originally posted by rogerP220:
a few people on sigforum have spoken highly of lancer custom ammunition. if you buy in bulk (1000 rounds of 115gr 9mm FMJ) it comes out to 10.50 per hundred, but of course, you have to factor in shipping. i believe if you add it to the shopping cart, they'll calculate shipping for you. i haven't tried their ammo yet myself, but i plan to sometime in the near future. i'll update my impressions when i try it out.

Oh yeah, nice price! I gotta check that ammo out. Thanks.

Rich

[Guest]

1) Winchester 9mm 147 gr Ranger RA9T

Testing Platform:
Glock 19

Barrier:
Four Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 11.875”
Recovered Weight: 150.4 gr.
Expansion*: .646 cal.

2) Winchester 9mm .147gr. SXT

Testing Platform:
Glock 19

Barrier:
4 Layers of Denim


TEST RESULTS:

Round # 1:
Penetration: 16.50"
Recovered Weight: 147.0 gr.
Expansion*: .687 cal.

These were from stoppingpower.com

[Guest]

Whats everyones take on wolf ammo in 9mm or any other cal? Says its non corrosive-however I think it is corrosive...

I don't want to deal with the soap and water hassles of corrosive ammo, especially when it says non..!

Any links in regards to ammo lists, known corrosive ammo brands?

[Guest]

Originally posted by Rich:
Hi Rokit88,

Thanks for the info. I'll check out those sites.

I didn't state that ammo choice was primary or secondary on the priority list :-) I just asked for peoples input because I was a bit overwhelmed by the choices.

What is SXT? Is that a hollow point ammunition?

At the risk of restarting this thread... :-) From my brief reading on the matter (ball v. HP), HP appears to be a bad choice if anything (dry wall, car door, lots of clothing) might get in between the tip of the bullet and the bad guy's skin. Interesting anecdotal evidence: [1] QuarterBoreGunner's experience at the National Shooting Club in Santa Clara where two hits with .45 cal. 230gr Federal Hydro-Shok JHP failed to kill/stop a bad guy (short barrel length was probably responsible); [2] US Marine shoots+kills Iraqi bad guy with one 9mm (ball) shot to the chest. Very interesting less anecdotal information: "One-Shot Drops: Surviving the Myth"

Rich

N.B.: You might have to scroll down one story to get to the story on one-shot stops.

Rich

[rkt88edmo]

The SXT is hollow point, and I think that currently the winchester offering that you can find is the one listed in the post above "Ranger RA9T"

[Guest]

Originally posted by We-The-Sheeple:
Whats everyones take on wolf ammo in 9mm or any other cal? Says its non corrosive-however I think it is corrosive...

I don't want to deal with the soap and water hassles of corrosive ammo, especially when it says non..!

Any links in regards to ammo lists, known corrosive ammo brands?

Hi Sheeple,

I've seen a long thread on ammo over on the firingline.com. People basically say Wolf ammo:
- is dirty
- the coating will gum up your barrel
- the steel cases are too hard on the gun
- the ammo isn't any dirtier than brand X
- I've fired 5,000 rds of Wolf and had no problems
- a friend of a friend shot it once and he was turned into a newt
- the coating isn't a problem for my pistol (usually Russian made)
- (loop)

Soooooo, the answers are all over the place but tend to be against Wolf ammo. If you place much value on the opinion of "the pack" (pun intended) use something else. It's not that much cheaper than alternatives that haven't been burned at the public opinion stake. And it's not like there's an alternative of well thought out, *quantitative* experiments that allow one to draw conclusions about that brand of ammo. At least not that I've seen. In fact, as a newbie I gotta say I'm a bummed that, as far as I can tell, none of the important topics are analyzed rigorously. (E.g., since when is a block of gelatin a valid model of the human body???)

Rich

[Guest]

Originally posted by Rich:
And it's not like there's an alternative of well thought out, *quantitative* experiments that allow one to draw conclusions about that brand of ammo. At least not that I've seen. In fact, as a newbie I gotta say I'm a bummed that, as far as I can tell, none of the important topics are analyzed rigorously. (E.g., since when is a block of gelatin a valid model of the human body???)

Rich

Amen brother. But the same is true in most other discussion forums. For example, go to Thumpertalk.com, and try to determine what the objective differences between two very similar models of dirt bikes from Yamaha and Honda are, or whether the Pirelli or Metzler front tires are better for loose dirt. No way, all you'll get is opinions, based on a single experience.

I'm tempted to buy Wolf ammo for plinking at home; the cost saving is significant (30-40% less than name-brand ammo), and in .45 ACP the cost of ammo is significant. But I've heard enough horror stories that I'm leary of endangering my $1500 pistol (or at least the $400 barrel, plus a $200 repair job if the extractor is gummed and worn beyond recognition). If I had nothing useful to do and too much money, I would buy a used H&K USP in good condition, and use it for nothing but plinking with Russian ammo, and compare it to another one used only for target shooting with non-russian name-brand ammo, and report the results in a few years.

[NYC2SoCal]

Originally posted by Rich:
..HP appears to be a bad choice if anything (dry wall, car door, lots of clothing) might get in between the tip of the bullet and the bad guy's skin. Interesting anecdotal evidence: [1] QuarterBoreGunner's experience at the National Shooting Club in Santa Clara where two hits with .45 cal. 230gr Federal Hydro-Shok JHP failed to kill/stop a bad guy (short barrel length was probably responsible); [2] US Marine shoots+kills Iraqi bad guy with one 9mm (ball) shot to the chest..

To address both these points, it goes back to practice and accuracy. Just remember your environment. Will a fired fmj kill your neighbor if you miss? How about overpenetration? Will it kill your neighbor/family member even if you hit the bg?

In regards to 2 rounds with a 45 and 1 with a 9, once again shot placement is critical. I believe I read a statistic that stated less than 20% of gun shot wounds result in fatalities. Any round through the heart will kill someone.. 2 misplaced shots may not cause a fatality. But 3 well placed shots in a 2+1 drill is key.

[Guest]

Regarding the comparison of caliber: it's anecdotal. I was just trying to bring up "evidence" of a small caliber ball round killing a bad guy whereas two rounds of HP from a cannon did not. I think it's important to not make comparitive conclusions (i.e., .45 is better than 9mm) based on such anecdotal evidence. You can conclude that a well placed pistol round will kill someone. So the caliber probably doesn't matter except for how it impacts your ability to place a shot.

I also think it's interesting that people stop shooting (see the FBI article I cited above) before the bad guy is dead or incapacitated.

The FBI article also makes the point that shot placement is essential.

Rich

[Guest]

Originally posted by NYC2SoCal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich:
..HP appears to be a bad choice if anything (dry wall, car door, lots of clothing) might get in between the tip of the bullet and the bad guy's skin. Interesting anecdotal evidence: [1] QuarterBoreGunner's experience at the National Shooting Club in Santa Clara where two hits with .45 cal. 230gr Federal Hydro-Shok JHP failed to kill/stop a bad guy (short barrel length was probably responsible); [2] US Marine shoots+kills Iraqi bad guy with one 9mm (ball) shot to the chest..

To address both these points, it goes back to practice and accuracy. Just remember your environment. Will a fired fmj kill your neighbor if you miss? How about overpenetration? Will it kill your neighbor/family member even if you hit the bg?

In regards to 2 rounds with a 45 and 1 with a 9, once again shot placement is critical. I believe I read a statistic that stated less than 20% of gun shot wounds result in fatalities. Any round through the heart will kill someone.. 2 misplaced shots may not cause a fatality. But 3 well placed shots in a 2+1 drill is key. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right on regarding shot placement. That seems to be the most important factor when incapacitating a bad guy.
What is a 2+1 drill?

thanks,
Rich