Handgun Buying Guide Based On the Trigger Pull

[tacticalcity]

So my cousin and I are headed to Front Sight to take the 4-Day Defense Handgun Course. It is my Christmas present to him.

He decided he wants to buy a handgun rather than rent one. This will be his first handgun, and he is very excited and asked for my advice.

So I put together a buying guide for him, based on what I consider to be the most important aspect of a handgun, the trigger pull.

Bear in mind, he needs a gun that will help him do well during this course. I took it once before with a Beretta 96F and had a really hard time fighting with the DA/SA trigger because it could not be carried cocked and locked. The first hard trigger pull would result in a high shot, and the second light trigger pull would result in a low shot (or vice versa it was a long time ago). Then you would either do a headshot which would be fine, or decock the gun by engaging the safety, holster it and start the process all over. You have do it all in seconds. Getting a consistant group was a nightmare. I am trying to help him avoid that pain.

So here is my guide...maybe it will help you figure out how to buy the best performing handgun for you?

PRINT THIS OUT AND TAKE IT WITH YOU TO THE GUN STORE

Guns that have easy to master triggers.

The most important part about a handgun is the trigger. If it is hard to master, you will shoot badly. There are a lot of options. Try each of them out side by side if you can and decide which you like best.

GROUP A: SAME TRIGGER PULL EACH TIME

The following guns have the same “medium” trigger pull every time. Double check this yourself before buying them, though. Provided they don’t have a manual safety you have to turn off, having the same trigger pull each and every time is a major plus. It will be easy to master and you will do well.

- Glock (also has very short reset)
- Walther P99 QA (only the Quick Action Model, avoid the others)
- Smith and Wesson M&P (not sure all models do, but the one that does is very nice)
- H&K USP with LEM trigger pack (never tried the reset, so check it yourself)
- Springfield XD (very long trigger reset is the downside)
- Sig Arms P250 (extremely long trigger rest is the downside)

HOW TO TEST THE TRIGGER TO SEE WHICH IS BEST OF THE ABOVE

- Do not rack the slide.
- Pull the trigger and hold it to rear? How light and smooth was the pull?
- Slowly release the trigger until it clicks. How short was the distance it took to reset?
- Pull the trigger again? Was it the same as the first pull? If so that is good.

GROUP B: CAN BE CARRIED COCKED AND LOCKED

Another option is to have a gun that can be carried cocked and locked. You holster the weapon with the hammer cocked to the rear, and the safety engaged. The advantage is the trigger pull is light as hell. The disadvantage is you have to disengage a manual safety before you can shoot. It is a tossup whether this is best, or having a GLOCK LIKE trigger is best.

- HK USP v1 Trigger (v2 might work the same I don’t know)
- HK P30 v1 Trigger (v2 might work the same I don’t know)
- 1911 Loaded or higher (also available in 9mm)
- Springfield 1911 EMP (specifically designed for 9mm or 40S&W in a MICRO frame)

HOW TO TEST TO SEE IF A GUN CAN BE CARRIED COCKED AND LOCKED

- Rack the slide
- Engage the safety. Does the hammer stay cocked to the rear? If so good.
- Release the safety.
- Pull the trigger. How light was it? Lighter is better.

BEST OF THE BEST

Everyone is different. But I find the following handguns to be equally good options.

- Glock (same trigger pull option)
- H&K USP v1 (cocked and locked option)
- Walther P99 QA (same trigger pull option – but only the QA model)
- H&K USP LEM (same trigger pull option)
- 1911 (cocked and locked option)

Then again a lot of the options I mentioned about might be better for you. You don’t know for certain until you play with them side by side, testing and comparing the triggers yourself.

[Jicko]

Good stuff!

[Iknownot]

I personally don't think visiting a gun shop is the best way to decide which handgun is for you with out already knowing what you like.

The best thing you could do for your cousin, before he considers any handgun for purchase, is to take him to a range and rent as many different handguns as you have time and $ to try out.

That will help him decide what he likes, is able to shoot well, and prefers in a hand gun.

IMO.

It sounds like you don't at all like DA/SA and that is fine, but it seems like you are narrowing your cousin's choices with out letting him decide for himself what he prefers.

[tacticalcity]

Sadly, we live pretty far apart. It's just not an option. Without me there to supervise, the gun range might be a bit intimidating and might wear him out before he tested all the options. He is a total NOOB. So I am making do.

Another problem is, it would not be an accurate test. Unless you are drawing from a holster, firing a controlled pair, then reholstering the weapon and repeating the process, you really can't tell which is truly best for you. Firing at 50 yards from a bench where you can take your time and cheat by not having to engage the safety and holster the weapon before you start over, you really have no idea which gun is truly better in "real life". The goal is not get him the best bench rest gun. The goal is to get him the best gun for this type of training.

No way somebody untrained would understand the importance of that. - I admit that was a very arrogant thing to say. Sorry.

[Iknownot]

If that is the case, let him rent a handgun from the course, and after he has that experience under his belt, he might feel more comfortable renting at a range on his own. He should decide what he wants after that.

To me, it sounds like you are setting him up to end up with a handgun, and not necessarily the one best for him.

IMO.

[tacticalcity]

I agree there is that risk. I advised him to rent the Glock 17 and make sure he likes it. He doesn't want to. He wants one now. What can I do? I am just trying to offer the best advice I can.

I am convinced that if gets one with an excellent trigger, he'll at least be able to shoot well. He is gonna worry about looks, how it fits in his hand, and which gun is "cooler" on his own. I am just trying to make sure he puts funcionality first.

As for ability to shoot...if the trigger is good...Front Sight will take care of the rest. They did with me.

[Iknownot]

The best advice you can offer is, rent a gun at the course, and then decide after renting a bunch, which one he wants to buy. Or rent some before hand to see which he likes better.

Perhaps there's an intro course at a range nearby him, where he can get the basics and be comfortable enough to try renting some guns on his own. I know the indoor range by me has an intro course. Try that before your 4-day course.

That's what I'd say to him.

[Packy14]

"Bear in mind, he needs a gun that will help him do well during this course. I took it once before with a Beretta 96F and had a really hard time fighting with the DA/SA trigger because it could not be carried cocked and locked. The first hard trigger pull would result in a high shot, and the second light trigger pull would result in a low shot (or vice versa it was a long time ago). Then you would either do a headshot which would be fine, or decock the gun by engaging the safety, holster it and start the process all over. You have do it all in seconds. Getting a consistant group was a nightmare. I am trying to help him avoid that pain"




sigs don't have safeties.

[Iknownot]

You don't need a course that lets you draw from a holster to let you determine whether you like a particular trigger system or not. Two shots in a row, even if already aimed, will tell you whether DA/SA or DAO vs SA bothers you or not.

Aside from that, picking particular guns that you like is fine up to a point. However your cousin is a different person and what one person likes or can shoot well does not necessarily carry over to someone else. Every one is different. That's the only point I'm trying to make and I think you are doing your Cousin a disservice in the end, with out letting him decide what is best for him to purchase.

[tacticalcity]

sigs don't have safeties.

The DA/SA models have to be "decocked" before you holster them or you risk shooting your foot off. So they really do have safety. The decocker is the safety.

The DAK models have an EXTREMELY long reset making them equally hard to master. You pretty much have to completely release the trigger before you can pull it again. It's not like the Glock wich has an extremely short reset.

You won't see a returning student to a course like Front Sight carrying a Sig unless it is department issued and required. You will see a ton of Glocks and 1911s. The trigger/action is the reason for that. Sigs are harder to master. It is more than possible, it just takes a lot longer...so why bother if you don't have to?

My buddy in the DS loves his Sig. It is all he has ever known. Over the past 5 years he has mastered it to the point that he is one seriously amazing shot...but it took him twice as long to get there than it did me with my Glock (the first time around...I'm pretty rusty now). He is part of their Tactical Response Team. The man is a stud. Even he has to admit, that if he were a beginner starting out again he woud rather learn on a Glock. It would have made his life a lot easier. For him it was never an option. The SIG 229 is department issue.

[-hanko]

The BEST handgun...

The "best" handgun is the one your cousin shoots most accurately. Trigger pull and whether the gun is SA or DA/SA are ONLY TWO variables.

You have NO idea of which gun fits his hand the best; which caliber may be the most accurate FOR HIM; etc.

Sadly, we live pretty far apart. It's just not an option. Without me there to supervise, the gun range might be a bit intimidating and might wear him out before he tested all the options. He is a total NOOB. So I am making do.

ALL of us were 'total NOOB's'...if he feels the range might be 'intimidating' and/or 'wear him out' realize that all of us, you and I included, went to the range for the first time. Don't underestimate your cousin. Let him 'make do'...if he's old enough to train, he's old enough to pick his own gun

Your post reminds me of others that are total fail, posting the question "So what's the best hg for my wife/gf/partner/so, etc...you'll never know the answer to the question until you cousin gives you the info after he tries a few guns.

From the standpoint of trigger pull, most guns can have a better trigger after a break-in period, not to mention a little fiddling and stoning by an experienced gunsmith.

I'd suggest the best out of the box pull may be from a 1911, though I know makes/models may differ somewhat. DA/SA gives more flexibility in how you can carry the gun. The best pistols I've seen 'out of the box' would include colt 1911's, Browning Hi-Powers, and CZ-75's...Obviously, everybody's mileage may vary.

Did someone pick YOUR first handgun, or did you figure it out for yourself??

Have fun in training and watch out for land deals and scientologists

hth

-hanko

[Iknownot]

You have to flick the saftey on a 1911 before you holster it, right? Why is that any better or different than decocking the Sig before you holster it? And what does that have to do with your original post, of trigger pull differences?

If you don't like sigs DA/SA, that's fine, but you kind of have apples to oranges comparisons when talking about these various different systems.

Not to mention, there are plenty of other DA/SA guns from other manufacturers that you are completely ignoring as well. One of those could be fine for your cousin, but he would never know because you've crossed the whole bunch off the list due to your preferences.

Which is another reason I think you should let your cousin decide for himself.

In any case. It sounds like both you and he have your minds made up. I hope he is satisfied with whatever he ends up with and I hope you both enjoy your 4 day course.

[tacticalcity]

The 1911 is better because when you flick that safety, it does not decock the handgun. You can carry a 1911 cocked and locked. So all your trigger pulls are very, very short and light.

So a SIG and a 1911 are nothing a like.

Thank you for wishing us well. I am sure we will both enjoy the course very much.

I strongly suggest attending one. You would totally understand what I am saying if you had taken the course. My opinion is formed from not only my own agonizing personal experience, but the comments from everyone I know who has taken one.

As for letting him figure it out on his own...I'm not that mean. Spending $750-$1500 on a gun you hate would seriously suck!!!

I spent $790 on my Beretta 96F when I bought it, because it fit my hand the best and looked pretty. After the first day at Front Sight I hated it, and myself for buying it.

If we have a range that was not totally PC here in California, and let you train in a realistic manner, you guys would be 100% right. Line up 10-15 handguns and put them through the paces at varying distances, and stopping to make sure that if it was a DA/SA that could not be cocked and locked you decocked it ever 2-3 shots just to keep things realistic. But we really don't. If you fire a controlled pair you get yelled at for "rapid fire" and no holsters are allowed.

So since we live here in California. You have to test the trigger in the store. Why waste money on gun rentals when its not gonna give you an accurate picture? Its just a waste of time.

Now, if after testing the trigger by dry firing different ones in the store, you wanted to test the caliber on the range...I am all for that!

[Iknownot]

The 1911 is better because when you flick that safety, it does not decock the handgun. You can carry a 1911 cocked and locked. So all your trigger pulls are very, very short and light.

So a SIG and a 1911 are nothing a like.

Yes, just like your cousin and you are nothing a like. Which is exactly the point the rest of us are trying to make, which you keep ignoring.

[HCz]

If you know of an into course, or even a gun range here in California that will let him work from a holster and teach him to train in a realistic manner...you a better than me. It doesn't exist.

In SoCal:
ITTS
FTA
Greg Block
Also, not my taste, but there is Suarez international classes.

IIRC Chabot range used to have classes like that but I'm from SoCal so have no clue on that.

Honestly, your suggestion sets him upfor failure more than mine. Because he will end up shooting round after round without engaging the safety and realizing just what a pain a double action/single action handgun is that cannot be carried cocked and lock. Additionally, gun course here do not teach you to shoot at realistic distances. It is just not a realistic option for 99.9% of people, including my cousin. Its not gonna happen. It wouldn't help even if it did.

DA/SA is no worse. Some people get so caught up with it and don't know how to properly deal with DA/SA.