P22 Re-call

[bwiese]

Patrick,

In my last post I was replying to Stator's comments, not yours.

With all the responsibilities of AG office, AG largely has a ceremonial gun control role. The DOJ Firearms Division is a relatively smal part of AG's office - staffing-wise and budget-wise.

And given demographics getting anything but a Democrat into that or gov's office will be a miracle - esp with predecessor Lungren's bible-thumping ways.

Again, most ALL new gun law proposals in CA arise from legislative staff work. In fact anything Lockyer might try to push thru Leg himself may well be rejected since he's seen as positioning himself for a run for Gov. - and some legislators may prefer another Democrat.

Sometimes tech questions may be asked of DOJ Firearms Div. DOJ will probably give reasonably honest answers about tech functioning of weapons: I am sure they've already told Koretz that AB352 is impractical - but does Koretz care??

Bill Wiese
San Jose

[PJA]

Somebody like Jerry Brown (Governor Moonbeam)?
Pete

[PatrickM.]

sorry about that bweise....i thought you were talking to me!!!!



Patrickm.

[Alles]

So, if I bought a perfectly legal gun in 2002 and in 2003 the legislature decided it wasn't legal, in 2005 they can:
1) reduce the value of my personal property
2) threaten my liberty (criminalize) me if I don't submit to this whimsical evaluation
...and there's nothing I can do about it?

No fourth amendment, Unreasonable Search & Seizure protections here?

[Alles]

The gun on the approved list has a short barrel. If mine has the 5" barrel are they just going to amputate it?


Not happy...does it show?

[bwiese]

Alles wrote:
So, if I bought a perfectly legal gun in 2002 and in 2003 the legislature decided it wasn't legal, in 2005 they can:
1) reduce the value of my personal property
2) threaten my liberty (criminalize) me if I don't submit to this whimsical evaluation
... and there's nothing I can do about it?

No fourth amendment, Unreasonable Search & Seizure protections here?

If your above statement/question is directly addressing the Walther P22 issue we're discussing here, this gun was illegally imported into CA, illegally sold to owners, illegally approved by DOJ, and is illegally possessed by Californians - since it is an assault weapon. These transactions should not have happened in the first place. There was nothing retroactive about this, and this gun was not in the state before these laws were passed & enacted ('by feature' AW registrations were due by 12/31/00).

I wouldn't have bought a P22 esp upon seeing the threading on the barrel, and if I found out later I'd've returned it to store ASAP for a full refund - including DROS fees etc.

Speaking more generally, the CA legislature can (without, unfortunately, taking broad 2nd Amend. considerations to heart) declare certain types of guns illegal. However, do note that everytime something in CA has been banned
(declared an assault weapon, 50BMG rifle, etc.) there has been a method for existing owners to continue retain their property via registration w/DOJ, or 'unsafe' handguns still transferable via F2F PPT or sold out of state. So there are no seizure issues. In addition, the guns can be sold/inherited out of state, so they are not legally 'dead' items without value.

Other state legislatures attempting to draft AW laws seem to be leaning to a total ban instead of registration with allowance for existing lawful users to retain/register them etc. - that is, a case even WORSE than California's. This may perhaps lead to a good court fight due to deprivation of existing property.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

[bwiese]

Alles wrote:
The gun on the approved list has a short barrel. If mine has the 5" barrel are they just going to amputate it?

I believe the orig gun that was actually an illegal AW was nevertheless DOJ approved as a handgun (drop test, etc.) for the barrel length in question. So on just a 'safety test' basis that handgun was legally sold and in your possession. The only reason it was illegal was that it is an assault weapon due threaded barrel.

Since the DOJ is acknowledging its screwup they are not, of course, prosecuting on its AW status. The gun was indeed on the approved list.

You will not have to worry about the 'approved' list - just get the non-AW update and you're good to go.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

[Alles]

Bill,
Thanks much for the information. The gun in question is the target version purchased from Traders in San Leandro, December '02. It truly yanks my chain that the state of California fouled up and is exacting it from my gunsafe.

Additionally, I wouldn't mind so much registering it, as I will with another firearm in my possession, however they are confiscating 3/4s of the value with their 'improvement.' Are any of your friends out of state willing to buy a P-22 that has been officially bastardized?

Your input is appreciated, I haven't received my package yet and am exploring my options. If the state fouled up by declaring the gun legal, the state needs to take responsibility. My point is they're the arbitrators of what is and is not legal. So if they failed to perform full and complete checks (feature in addition to drop) that's not the consumers' fault.

Thanks

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
--Douglas Adams.

[Alles]

Ted,
Thanks, but they're eliminating my options to switch back and forth. It's one of the main attractions of this pistol. What do I do with my 3 1/2" barrel? Turn it into a whistle that plays the legislature's whimsical tune?

Thanks

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
-Hunter S. Thompson

[cvela]

I have to agree with your situation Alles. My wife purchased this gun, after falling in love with it at the gun store, while I was purchasing a p99 .40. The thought it was so "cute," but hey, whatever gets more guns in the house!
Anyway, I purchased a 3.4" barrel for her within a month of the purchase, with the idea of swapping the 5" here and there. Now were going to have a paperweight! Its not our fault! Argh! Might as well send it out of the state, than bastarizing it .

[bwiese]

Well if you don't want to 'violate' your gun and make it CA compliant, you generally need to DRIVE the P22 out of state and sell it via an FFL there.

Then, buy a new CA-compliant P22 here.

If you want to ship the violating P22 to an out of state FFL you'd need the services of a CA FFL dealer who also holds a Calif Assault Weapons permit. There are a few: Traders (San Leandro) and a couple others in N. Bay/Contra Costa have these, but they may charge handling fees that make it not worth effort....

HOWEVER, _IF_ the one P22 'evil' feature - the threaded barrel - can readily be removed by yourself without damaging gun, you could ship (by UPS/FedEx) the P22 to an out of state FFL and he could remount the bbl. I would advise shipping the barrel SEPARATELY from the P22. The P22 without its offending threaded bbl is NOT an assault weapon by CA standards.


Bill Wiese
San Jose
Bill Wiese
San Jose

[s281c]

well, I got my letter last week, sent the gun out on Friday 4/15, and received the gun back today with the "certificate" of proof that the gun is now compliant.

The certificate is really just a computer generated printout on a cheap piece of paper with no watermark or letterhead, something anyone could print on a laser printer.

[Hank Zudd]

so, what if someone you know happened to have one of these p-22's and the letter from the state, and just moved out with said gun prior to the 45 days lapsing without telling anyone? (I was in the process of moving prior to recieving the package)

[bwiese]

My opinion - and I'm not a lawyer...

The original P22 "assault weapons" are 'by feature' AWs. The evil feature is, of course, a threaded barrel. P22s are not banned by name, etc.

If you're moving/moved out of state, tell 'em to f**k off.

P22 AW owners are under no legal obligation to use S&W to modify/change their P22. They could turn the threads off themselves, have another smith do it, etc.

DOJ has NO idea of the status of your P22. Is it an AW? Did you fix it yourself by turning the threads? etc etc.

And nonresponse to this letter shouldn't be grounds for a search warrant. (But mind your Ps & Qs just the same: this could be fun for the right person to take on DOJ...)

Removal of P22 barrel and keeping them locked separately, or purchasing a new unthreaded bbl should also comply with law - exactly similar to having a FAL clone with a separate pistol grip. Of course you could never assemble/shoot your P22 in CA this way until threaded bbl replaced, but the DOJ can't force you to have a working gun

Bill Wiese
San Jose

[Hank Zudd]

Sorry Ted, forgot to add, I'm moving out of state.