P22 Re-call

[xsquid]

Well it's official - I just got a pre-paid FedEx pack to send my "assualt" pistol back to Smith&Wesson to have the threaded barrel retrofitted so it's not longer in violation of CA laws

Thank you Bill Lockyer!

[GTKrockeTT]

did you initiate contact with S&W, if not, how did they know you have a P22?

[bwiese]

I'd bet S&W prob tracks thru their distrib. & dealer links and didn't get info from Cal DOJ.

So the dealer info from 4473/DROS comes from gunshops in dribs & drabs. When they got enough addresses, info etc - that is, they hit some threshold- they decided to kick it in gear.

Bill W
San Jose

[ivanimal]

I just got mine today as well. I dont think they had to look for me it has been back to their factory 3 time already. What is once more? I guess we dont have any recource. I hope it does not change anything in the maechanics, I just got it back in firing order finally after 2 years.

[PJA]

I have moved since buying mine. I wonder if they will be able to find me.
Pete

[GTKrockeTT]

hmm...guess i need to give S&W a ring on the tele.

[code33]

So how is the barrel removed on a CA "fixed" P22?

[GTKrockeTT]

just called S&W, they're sending me out a call tag.

[Rumpled]

I just love the way DOJ works.

They approve a pistol, let a bunch of people buy one, decide it shouldn't be approved later and threaten you with prosecution if you aren't inconvenienced by having your pistol superglued to be less than what it was.

They screw up but you will be prosecuted for it.
Makes total sense to me.

I also see that compliance will "protect you from any enforcement action". What happened to 58 DA's may interpret this differently like has been said?

[PatrickM.]

Honestly.....

The CA DOJ can Kiss my white A#$!!!!!!!!!!

they can send a letter to my old address but they can't find me...

I LIVE IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha...Bill Lockyer Can't find me!!!

this is so stupid....i hope you CA people will have that guy voted out of office!!!!

PatrickM.

[bwiese]

Originally posted by PatrickM.:
The CA DOJ can Kiss my white A#$!!!
{...snip...}
this is so stupid....i hope you CA people will have that guy voted out of office!!!!

Irrelevant.

Lockyer is only one guy. He can't pass laws.

Even if we had John Wayne or Rambo for state AG he'd need the state Senate and state Assembly to creat new law to override SB23 assault weapon ban. And the governor would have to sign it.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

[imported_booknut]

Haven't gotten my package yet.
I'm trying to decide what course of action I will take here.

I will be writing the Governer to inform him of what's going on.
I will also be contacting our various gun rights orgaizations to see what they are doing about this.

It would be possible for our lawmakers to change the law to allow these pistols to remain in civilian hands the way they originally were made.

[stator]

Originally posted by bwiese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PatrickM.:
The CA DOJ can Kiss my white A#$!!!
{...snip...}
this is so stupid....i hope you CA people will have that guy voted out of office!!!!

Irrelevant.

Lockyer is only one guy. He can't pass laws.

Even if we had John Wayne or Rambo for state AG he'd need the state Senate and state Assembly to creat new law to override SB23 assault weapon ban. And the governor would have to sign it.

Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your brain must have farted. Lockyer is the sole person responsible for writing the CA criminal regulations code which is being used to press for this recall. Voting him out of office (elected position) over this does send a strong message to others.

[bwiese]

Stator...

bwiese wrote:
Irrelevant. Lockyer is only one guy. He can't pass laws.

Even if we had John Wayne or Rambo for state AG he'd need the state Senate and state Assembly to creat new law to override SB23 assault weapon ban. And the governor would have to sign it.

Stator wrote:
Your brain must have farted. Lockyer is the sole person responsible for writing the CA criminal regulations code which is being used to press for this recall. Voting him out of office (elected position) over this does send a strong message to others.

My brain may fart and maybe even emits bursts of Denny's- grade diarrhea, but at least I understand the difference between, and subservience of, administrative/regulatory laws vs. statutory laws.

You have failed to understand that Calif DOJ cannot make new law whatsoever and can only make administrative regulatory law that is within the scope of statutory law already present.

The DOJ can offer technical expertise, etc. to realize a statutory law into more detailed regulations but its regulations cannot exceed authority granted by statutory law.

It is completely CLEAR from Calif. law, CPC 12275-12276 that pistols/handguns CANNOT have threaded barrels. Whether or not regulatory law even specifies it, it's black-letter statutory law. He is REQUIRED to enforce it.
The fact that he's not criminally prosecuting people is actually a luxury: simple possession of a P22 could be charged as a felony, no matter how legitimate/good intent the purchase was.

When Lungren unilaterally extended assault weapon registration period in the early 90s to get more reg compliance, he was (successfully) sued by the Brady bunch as exceeding his powers - since that was a decision only the legislature could make: Lungren was determined to have made new law.

And no matter how many guns the DOJ wants (or wants not) to ban, they can't. If the DOJ wants to ban Colt .45s or Jennings 22s the Senate and Assembly have to pass a law and gov has to sign it. If the DOJ wanted to specifically ban AR15-style trapdoor buttstocks on AR15s as yet another 'evil feature' on an assault weapon, they could not do this: this was not listed in the actual CPC 12225-12276 law.

However, DOJ could establish techical standards to determine what is and is not a flash hider - and would consider things like how much optical power reduction? orignal intent - hider or brake? etc. etc. So they do have a bit of determination in figuring 'what is what' but can't go too far overboard. In the Walther P22 case, there was no wiggle room: a threaded bbl is a threaded bbl.

[Frankly, I'm surprised DOJ allowed/approved modded AR15 lowers from GB sales!]

Burecratic agencies of all sorts can run a bit wild when there are gaps, various interpretations in the law, etc. And they do get sued by various parties if they've arrogated themselves 'legislative privilege' (as above).

Again, Lockyer is relatively irrelevant except to maybe degree or extent of enforcement. If there were no SB23 and no Roberti-Roos laws ever passed, he'd have zero gun control leverage. And, again as I say, even if John Wayne were AG, he'd be legally required to enforce AW ban or would be impeached from office.

All our battles belong in the legislative side (and, to some extent, gov's election). If you have to fight a bureacratic agency on minor interpretations of already exsiting statutory law banning something you want, you've already lost 80+% of the battle.

That's not to say you should vote for Lockyer in the next election. But he'll likely be running for Gov, and Jerry Brown will be running for AG, so Lockyer's tenure as AG will be short.

For more information, consult your high school civic textbook on "How a Bill Becomes a Law" and "Separation of Powers". These concepts apply Federally as well as on a state basis.


Bill Wiese
San Jose



For more information, please consult your high school civics

[PatrickM.]

For more information, consult your high school civic textbook on "How a Bill Becomes a Law" and "Separation of Powers". These concepts apply Federally as well as on a state basis.

I am well aware how a law becomes a bill....I have a Degree in Political science, i wanted Lockyer out of office because he advises politicans in sacramento about guns and all gun policies and if he is out of office he is not able to influence gun control policy making in the state. Politicans in Sacramento are so stupid they will believe anything that is said from a "qualified expert source". you guys in CA need to get somebody into the AG office that knows about more than just "evil guns kill people" but that sensable gun control measures work.

thats just my 2 cents...

PatrickM.