.357SIG vs 5.7x28

[ST5MF]

Soooo....... thats why The SIG-Sauer P229 in .357 SIG is currently the standard issue firearm carried by agents of the United States Secret Service, the Bastrop County Texas Sheriff's Office, the North Carolina State Highway Patrol, Delaware State Police, Rhode Island State Police, Alameda County Sheriff's Office, Virginia State Police, Federal Air Marshals and the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration......

Horrible arguement.

I have plenty of agency friends who blantantly state the .357SIG chambered SIG pistols were given to them at low cost by SIG SAUER to try and gain market acceptance of the SIG Sauer Proprietary round.

Again, the .357SIG is a gimmick that some buy into- hook, line, and sinker. It does nothing that a modern 9mm load does not do.

There is not valid arguement for .357SIG. It is a kool-aid drinkers wet dream and nothing more.

[D.R.E.]

Horrible arguement.

Again, the .357SIG is a gimmick that some buy into- hook, line, and sinker. It does nothing that a modern 9mm load does not do.

Can you be more concrete? What 9mm load are you talking about? E.g., many grains of which powder and bullet?

The 9mm case is tiny in comparision to a 357sig case --- when I do a compressed load w/ a 124gr bullet in a sig I don't see how a 9mm can possibly reach that. Though perhaps you are using a much more dense powder than AA?

For the conservative loads the lyman manual uses as their max they give around 1200fp for a 115 gr in 9m and 1500fps for the same in sig. I know you can crank the 357sig round up much higher than that (given a quality bullet), but it's unclear how much more the 9mm can go.

In any case they are both p*ssy rounds compared to the 9x25

[Army GI]

I don't know why the 9x23 Winchester isn't more popular. Corbon.com shows a 125gr JHP flying at 1450fps hitting with 584ftlbs. That looks pretty damn close to a good 357 Mag load to me.

[D.R.E.]

I don't know why the 9x23 Winchester isn't more popular. Corbon.com shows a 125gr JHP flying at 1450fps hitting with 584ftlbs. That looks pretty damn close to a good 357 Mag load to me.

Brass seems expensive, unfortunately.

Also, loading 9x23 seems to require getting different attachments from dillon, whereas the 9x25 and 357sig can use the same shellplate and case feeder stuff as 40s&w and 10mm. I have 500 cases and a bar-sto 9x23 barrel sitting in a box still b/c of this

[AJD]

Can you be more concrete? What 9mm load are you talking about? E.g., many grains of which powder and bullet?

The 9mm case is tiny in comparision to a 357sig case --- when I do a compressed load w/ a 124gr bullet in a sig I don't see how a 9mm can possibly reach that. Though perhaps you are using a much more dense powder than AA?

For the conservative loads the lyman manual uses as their max they give around 1200fp for a 115 gr in 9m and 1500fps for the same in sig. I know you can crank the 357sig round up much higher than that (given a quality bullet), but it's unclear how much more the 9mm can go.

In any case they are both p*ssy rounds compared to the 9x25

I believe he's refering to the terminal performance of the two rounds. In that respect both have very similar expansion and penetration numbers. The .357sigs extra velocity does not give it any extra wounding or so called "stopping power."

[D.R.E.]

I believe he's refering to the terminal performance of the two rounds. In that respect both have very similar expansion and penetration numbers. The .357sigs extra velocity does not give it any extra wounding or so called "stopping power."

Hmmm. I'm not sure about that. At least things explode a lot more dramatically when I touch them w/ a hot 357sig load.

Perhaps more testing is in order

[snaggletooth]

Horrible arguement.

I have plenty of agency friends who blantantly state the .357SIG chambered SIG pistols were given to them at low cost by SIG SAUER to try and gain market acceptance of the SIG Sauer Proprietary round.

Again, the .357SIG is a gimmick that some buy into- hook, line, and sinker. It does nothing that a modern 9mm load does not do.

There is not valid arguement for .357SIG. It is a kool-aid drinkers wet dream and nothing more.

I understand, and I am not here to change your mind. I will cite the 1996 FBI test which can be read here.

http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com/357sig.pdf

and the summary of the test

http://www.webcitation.org/5guiaeBqM

Yeah, ok, it's gimmick round. I concede, but its one hell of a gimmick round to have. Especially since it was able to penetrate more gelatin after auto glass. I'm not here to change the world or your mind. It's ok to me that it's a gimmick, Oh well, se la vie. You want to discuss 5.56 and 5.45x39 instead?

[eccvets]

Btw, anyone considering the 5.7x28 for self defense should read the post by Dr. Gary Roberts on its terminal performance.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

It sounds like getting hit by a .22 (even a .22 short) would not hurt. I would bet anything, getting hit by a .22 of any lenght would stop me and 99% of the people out there! Especially if more then one hits you in rapid succession (think about up to 31 hitting you without a single reload if you live in a non-commie state). It also sounds like a .22 can't kill a person and I assure you it can!

I'm not saying a 5.7 is a magic bullet but its a bullet and a very fast one. I wouldn't wanna get hit with it and I dare you to stand in front of one if you think its nothing but crap. (I shoot ya if you want! Arm or leg, your choice.)

What I can tell you from first hand experience is that a 5.7 is hella fun to shoot, its even fun to load, and can easily reach out and hit someone over a 100 yards away easily (not too shabby from a stock gun right out of the box!). Mines is easily one of the most accurate guns I have ever shot and owned.

If you want advice on which to buy, shoot both guns and pick the one you like more. Don't take anyone elses advice cuz its just crap! Everyone's hands are different, everyone's strenght is different, and everyone has different prefrences.

[AJD]

I wouldn't want to stand in front of a .22 or 5.7x28 and get hit. Then again I wouldn't want to stand in front of someone throwing a rock at me or getting hit with something from a slingshot. Of course a .22 or 5.7x28 can kill and that link even says that. That's not the point. Getting shot may or may not hurt someone during an attack. Adrenalin and such make pain an unreliable predictor. People have been shot during altercations and have not even realized they have been at the time. And if you think getting hit by anything would stop people 99% of the time then you are very much mistaken. The human body can take quite a bit of punishment and does and that's not even throwing in a person under the influence of drugs into the mix. If you don't believe me you should read the following FBI bulletin on handgun wounding factors. It was written with references from actual trauma surgeons.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

This isn't about whether the 5.7x28 "sucks" as some general statement. It may be a fun accurate gun to shoot. However, part of the thread topic covered the caliber being used for self-defense and I believe the evidence is there to suggest it's usefullness in that capacity in the link provided.

[Rob Roy]

I wouldn't want to stand in front of a .22 or 5.7x28 and get hit. Then again I wouldn't want to stand in front of someone throwing a rock at me or getting hit with something from a slingshot. Of course a .22 or 5.7x28 can kill and that link even says that. That's not the point. Getting shot may or may not hurt someone during an attack. Adrenalin and such make pain an unreliable predictor. People have been shot during altercations and have not even realized they have been at the time. And if you think getting hit by anything would stop people 99% of the time then you are very much mistaken. The human body can take quite a bit of punishment and does and that's not even throwing in a person under the influence of drugs into the mix. If you don't believe me you should read the following FBI bulletin on handgun wounding factors. It was written with references from actual trauma surgeons.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

This isn't about whether the 5.7x28 "sucks" as some general statement. It may be a fun accurate gun to shoot. However, part of the thread topic covered the caliber being used for self-defense and I believe the evidence is there to suggest it's usefullness in that capacity in the link provided.

Interesting read!!! In gelatin tests I've seen 5.7x28 didn't penetrate 12" as the document suggests, which is a big minus for this round.

[DDRH]

Interesting read!!! In gelatin tests I've seen 5.7x28 didn't penetrate 12" as the document suggests, which is a big minus for this round.

maybe a big plus, cuz you don't want over penetration? collateral damage? just a thought

[Rob Roy]

maybe a big plus, cuz you don't want over penetration? collateral damage? just a thought

The document suggests rounds, which cannot penetrate 12" are not suitable for LE use. Not enough wounding capabilities and endangers the life of the weapon operator (LEO).

[mblat]

maybe a big plus, cuz you don't want over penetration? collateral damage? just a thought

Issue of over penetration is GREATLY over exaggerated. Any decent study will show that in case of armed confrontation you ( and anybody else ) will likely miss a lot. We are talking way over 50% miss rate. So..... who really cares if bullet or two will exit from other side of BG, if the rest magazine didn't hit him at all?

[DDRH]

The document suggests rounds, which cannot penetrate 12" are not suitable for LE use. Not enough wounding capabilities and endangers the life of the weapon operator (LEO).

i guess since i'm not fat, 11-12" is alot if i got shot...ahahaha. definitely over penetrate if i got shot.

but, i c your point

Issue of over penetration is GREATLY over exaggerated. Any decent study will show that in case of armed confrontation you ( and anybody else ) will likely miss a lot. We are talking way over 50% miss rate. So..... who really cares if bullet or two will exit from other side of BG, if the rest magazine didn't hit him at all?

good point too

[Rob Roy]

Issue of over penetration is GREATLY over exaggerated. Any decent study will show that in case of armed confrontation you ( and anybody else ) will likely miss a lot. We are talking way over 50% miss rate. So..... who really cares if bullet or two will exit from other side of BG, if the rest magazine didn't hit him at all?

Big +1 on that.