Open Carry Question...

[SPUTTER]

UOC here in Southern California is a death wish...Cops are very paranoid and will shoot first and ask questions later. Not worth the risk.

[Bird of Fire]

UOC here in Southern California is a death wish...Cops are very paranoid and will shoot first and ask questions later. Not worth the risk.

Ok just curious since we have a few that OC quite a bit, pullnshoot comes to mind....has anyone actually been either shot at, killed, or held at gunpoint for OC'ing? I'm genuinely curious. I'm not saying the guy should or should not, but I'm not going to scare him into not doing it either.

[MasterYong]

Ok just curious since we have a few that OC quite a bit, pullnshoot comes to mind....has anyone actually been either shot at, killed, or held at gunpoint for OC'ing? I'm genuinely curious. I'm not saying the guy should or should not, but I'm not going to scare him into not doing it either.

I do recall reading on the opencarrycalifornia.org website (I may be wrong about that address) about a fellow that had a "draw-down" scenario outside a Wal-Mart involving a veteran and a rookie. I may be incorrect about where I read that though. To the best of my recollection it was the veteran that insisted the UOC was illegal, and the rookie was arguing with him LOL.

I have asked two Eureka Police Department officers what they would do and they told me that if they saw me UOC'ing and they didn't know me directly (like from the conversation) that i would be eating pavement until backup arrived.

Right or wrong, I don't want to be in that situation. You seen that vid of the BART cop shooting that kid in the back? Whether he meant to or not that weapon discharged. I don't want to be that guy.

[Bird of Fire]

I do recall reading on the opencarrycalifornia.org website (I may be wrong about that address) about a fellow that had a "draw-down" scenario outside a Wal-Mart involving a veteran and a rookie. I may be incorrect about where I read that though. To the best of my recollection it was the veteran that insisted the UOC was illegal, and the rookie was arguing with him LOL.

I have asked two Eureka Police Department officers what they would do and they told me that if they saw me UOC'ing and they didn't know me directly (like from the conversation) that i would be eating pavement until backup arrived.

Right or wrong, I don't want to be in that situation. You seen that vid of the BART cop shooting that kid in the back? Whether he meant to or not that weapon discharged. I don't want to be that guy.

I hear yah and pick up what yer saying.

FWIW, the few times I've done it, nobody freaked out, nobody panicked, no cops were called, nothing. But it is a possibility....personally I'd rather just not deal with the lgal hassle of it just yet, so I stopped. I think cops shooting people with a holstered gun is going a tick overboard in the FUD department.

[lorax3]

has anyone actually been either shot at, killed, or held at gunpoint for OC'ing?

People have absolutely been drawn down on and held at gunpoint. Exact member details have been omitted for legal reasons.

[supermario]

I would think that since your gun is actually holstered on your hip, LE would assume that person is OC'ing or perhaps a person whom is working and has legal right to carry. Maybe a Bail Enforcement, P.I. or another cop in plain clothes. I wouldnt be scared to see a guy with a gun on his hip in a holster, he obviously isnt hiding it, i think the guy with the gun in the waistband is more threatening! I dont get it! I think most people just have their heads up their Arses and are basically scared of guns. When i was a kid, you could walk around with a bb gun looking for birds, now you would have the darn swat team called on you.. Such a sad state we live in these days.. I visited Arizona last month and some biker guy was pulled off the road and looked like he needed help, he had a RugerP89 i think on his hip.. I pulled over and helped him, i had my kids and bro with me and you know what, that didnt bother any of us. Its just ridicoulous how people act about guns. Its not even the laws, its the wimpy people that dont take their kids shooting, camping, hunting, fishing. Just a bunch of ignorant people out there.. A gun is a tool!!!!!

[cineski]

All this hubbub to carry an expensive steel rock? This proves nothing to anyone but you're happy carrying an expensive steel rock. Start fighting fro LOC or CCW.

Edited for correct element ;-)

[GuyW]

Start fighting fro LOC or CCW.

Exactly how?

.

[cineski]

By not showing contentment with carrying an open unloaded gun.

Exactly how?

.

[TitanCi]

Yeah, I still see no point in UOC. What does it prove? I'm reluctant to do so because 1) what if you have to use the weapon in public? So much more comes into play, and Murphy's Law would probably go into full-blown effect. 2) if used in public could you imagine the legalities you'd have to face? Correct me if I'm wrong, but people with CCWs probably don't have it off easy if they had to use their firearms in the public for SD, right? Don't you still have to prove why you had to use it and if the BG had intent, opportunity, and ability to kill you before you use your weapon?

Now throw UOC into that mix...

[SPUTTER]

I hear yah and pick up what yer saying.

FWIW, the few times I've done it, nobody freaked out, nobody panicked, no cops were called, nothing. But it is a possibility....personally I'd rather just not deal with the lgal hassle of it just yet, so I stopped. I think cops shooting people with a holstered gun is going a tick overboard in the FUD department.

Uh...overboard? How many times have you turned on the news to see an officer involved shooting where they "thought" the suspect had a gun? How about the off duty cop in NY who was shot by the police when he was chasing down a bad guy?
Sorry but in the area that live, I certainly wouldnt do it. Maybe if I lived in Mayberry, CA. No disrespect to LEO's because I know their are good officers out there but I'm not impressed with some of the ones I've seen around my town. I certainly wouldnt put my life in their hands.

[Shadowdrop]

No reason to OC in the OC? Santa Ana has more active gangs than any other city in the country (90+ at last count). Orange County public safety has been hit hard with budget reductions, making probation violations essentially impossible. That means, lots of criminals committing crimes without consequence. Sounds like a halfway decent reason to carry, to me.

[CitaDeL]

Its interesting when someone asks for advice about open carry or UOC and we seem to revisit the same things over again and some of the same hackneyed commentary is regurgitated because it sounds true.

for the record;

1) Firearms are not just like 'rocks' or 'sticks' regardless of whether or not they are loaded. The law of State of California do not treat rocks and firearms the same way- and we likewise should respect the unloaded firearm in the same manner as the loaded one. Because even the police cannot distinguish the two without performing an (e) check.

2) The choice to carry an unloaded and exposed firearm is not primarily a tactical solution to self-defense. It is a political illustration of the preposterous condition of our gun laws in California. While there are some who have decided to practice UOC as a means to exert their right to self-defense as one means lawful to them, the essential goal is to acclimate the indoctrinated masses to the fact that gun owners are not camo-clad bumpkins serving in the unorganized militia in Idaho. We are teachers, students, professionals, parents, and otherwise ordinary people that are not the boogymen the media makes gun-owners out to be.

3) Police have drawn down on UOC'rs on perhaps three or four occasions that I am aware of. These occurences have prompted the issuance of numerous memos affirming the lawfulness of exposed carry and the increasing likelihood of police encounters with activists- Who, having endured the improper responses by police, initiated an exponential increase of law enforcement knowledge and created the possibility of a shift in procedure making interaction much more safe for the rest of us.

4) The ramifications of using a firearm in self-defense are no different whether or not the firearm is carried exposed or carried under the privilege of a license to carry concealed. There is a possibility that someone could use a visible firearm as an excuse to call 911 and make a false police report, but that is why we encourage the precaution of cameras, audio recorders, and friendly witnesses.

5) The situation with California gun rights has been very dire. In my opinion, there is no hope in turning back the manufactured obstruction of the second amendment without conflict. There are no advances to our cause in a static environment where gun-owners only observe. And I believe that legislature and judiciary eliminating any possible exercise of 'keep and bear' is only advantageous to our position in the post Heller/Nordyke environment.

Yes, it is at great personal risk. Yes, it can affect all gun-owners. And yes, it is a costly sacrifice if it should result in a negative outcome... but apathy and inaction got us where we find ourselves today- we were not near the nuisance we should have been when the legislators began the methodical erosion of our liberties.

The goal of the anti-gunners is to blot out the second amendment whether or not we take action,...I have come to believe that such action should be taken as to compel legislative apoplexy, rather than await a geological progression towards 20,000 additional gun laws. Bans now or bans later, the result is still a ban. Creating an environment hostile to anti-gun tyrants is the kryptonite to their superman... it is our obligation to spread the gun culture to its furthest possible extent with whatever means possible, including UOC.

[MallNinja]

I have an open carry question. If you're open carrying, then getting into your car, should you put the gun in the trunk? Or can you have it on your waist? I'm guessing that you must place it in a locked container.

Also, can you open carry on hiking/biking trails (besides state parks) around the OC?

[jazman]

Here is your fundamental problem. California state courts are your enemy and the Federal Courts will take time before they will take carry seriously. We have embarked on getting the Federal Courts to take carry seriously but we may have to lose all the way to SCOTUS before we get the right to carry in California recognized.

In other states where OC has worked, those states have protection of the right to bear arms in their state Constitutions. WE DO NOT IN CALIFORNIA.

So you may think you have the right, and I agree you probably do, but that will not stop you from wasting time and treasure while losing your gun rights and potentially having serious negative consequences on the rest of California's gun owners.

Please read up on how likely it is that Theseus is going to lose his case, lose his gun rights, and probably make it so that you can't carry (loaded or concealed) in a business in a school zone - even when you own it.
Think first.

-Gene

Good information here, and Gene doesn't mention that Theseus has stated he (and the people who have supported him money wise) is out about $40,000.00, yes, $40K, up to this point and it's not over yet. So, the old thought/guidance about having $5K or $10K in the bank in case you get nailed (EVEN if it's BS) is now up to $40K the way I see it. $40K, damn, that would buy a lot of nice new toys, eh? Oh, unless you get nailed and lose your rights to have any guns at all for 10 years and possibly forever. Ouch.