AOW T/C Encore legality

[FantomFox]

Assuming Form 1s from California are not being automatically rejected, is there anything stopping me from registering my TC pistol as a AOW and then buying a .45/410 barrel or cutting down a 12 gauge barrel to like 10 inches?

[Quiet]

Assuming Form 1s from California are not being automatically rejected, is there anything stopping me from registering my TC pistol as a AOW and then buying a .45/410 barrel or cutting down a 12 gauge barrel to like 10 inches?

The only thing stopping you is time and money.


It is CA legal to acquire a Title 1 Handgun (Thompson/Center Arms Contender/Encore break-open single-shot pistol) and make it into a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW. As a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW, the owner of it can legally possess and utilize less than 18" barrels, that can discharge shotgun shells, for it.

[plumbum]

Or, you could find an old H&R or other single shot and cut the barrel down to 18 1/2” and then cut the stock to a pistol type grip that keeps the OAL over 26” and call it a day (because that will get you 99% there for a LOT less hassle).

Nothing wrong with a boomstick, but the cool factor lasts about two range trips, then you can move on

[seaweedsoyboy]

[lastinline]

The only thing stopping you is time and money.


It is CA legal to acquire a Title 1 Handgun (Thompson/Center Arms Contender/Encore break-open single-shot pistol) and make it into a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW. As a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW, the owner of it can legally possess and utilize less than 18" barrels, that can discharge shotgun shells, for it.

What does it cost? $200?

[plumbum]

Pretty sure you can’t AOW a firearm that started out as a rifle or shotgun.

You don’t have to, just keep it over 26 1/2” OAL and it’s still a shotgun. You really want to jump through all those hoops over a few inches? I have a 22” 12 gauge barrel for my H&R, and you can add the Choate pistol grip and it’s still legal.

https://www.riflestock.com/store/product/hr-nef-410-20-16-12-pistol-grip/

[Quiet]

What does it cost? $200?

$200 tax stamp to make a Title 2 AOW.

[Quiet]

Or, you could find an old H&R or other single shot and cut the barrel down to 18 1/2” and then cut the stock to a pistol type grip that keeps the OAL over 26” and call it a day (because that will get you 99% there for a LOT less hassle).

Nothing wrong with a boomstick, but the cool factor lasts about two range trips, then you can move on

Pretty sure you can’t AOW a firearm that started out as a rifle or shotgun.

You don’t have to, just keep it over 26 1/2” OAL and it’s still a shotgun. You really want to jump through all those hoops over a few inches? I have a 22” 12 gauge barrel for my H&R, and you can add the Choate pistol grip and it’s still legal.

https://www.riflestock.com/store/pro...2-pistol-grip/

For CA...
Minimum barrel length of 18" [PC 17180(a)] and minimum overall length of 26" [PC 17180(b)], in order to not be considered an illegal SBS.
^Being a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW, allows the firearm to legally go lower than the minimum length requirements.

[seaweedsoyboy]

For CA...
Minimum barrel length of 18" [PC 17180(a)] and minimum overall length of 26" [PC 17180(b)], in order to not be considered an illegal SBS.
^Being a BATFE approved Title 2 AOW, allows the firearm to legally go lower than the minimum length requirements.

https://www.riflestock.com/store/pro...2-pistol-grip/

My point was that you cannot AOW a rifle or a shotgun, only a firearm that has never had a stock. Is that correct?

[morrcarr67]

My point was that you cannot AOW a rifle or a shotgun, only a firearm that has never had a stock. Is that correct?

You are correct.

You can turn a Title 1 Shotgun or Rifle into a Title 1 Other, but you can't change it into a Title 2 AOW. Those would become Title 2 SBR/SBSs.

To create a Title 2 AOW you need to start with a Title 1 Pistol or Title 1 Other.

Quiet is the one that answered this question for me recently in a private conversation.

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[dfletcher]

^
To expand a bit re "never had a stock attached" with of course an invite to be corrected.

ATF letter was posted previously which allowed that a new and complete AR lower with stock attached is not considered a rifle unless and until a +16" upper is attached - I believe the term in the ATF letter was "en-barreled". The same ought to apply to a Remington 700 action attached to a stock, but never having a +15" barrel attached, and a T/C with shoulder stock but never have a +16" barrel attached. And so on ...

A way of validating if the above is accurate (absent tracking down the letter) might be whether an AR lower with stock attached can be documented on 4473 as "other" and if a person under 21 yrs old can buy - assuming not in a state where semi rifles to under 21 yrs old is not prohibited.

[seaweedsoyboy]

You are correct.

You can turn a Title 1 Shotgun or Rifle into a Title 1 Other, but you can't change it into a Title 2 AOW. Those would become Title 2 SBR/SBSs.

To create a Title 2 AOW you need to start with a Title 1 Pistol or Title 1 Other.

Quiet is the one that answered this question for me recently in a private conversation.

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Right, as I thought.

Also keep in mind though that (again, I believe) creating a Title 2 AOW from a Title 1 Other would still subject the Title 2 AOW to compliance with the handgun roster, since CA still views Title 2 AOWs as handguns. So creating a semiautomatic Title 2 AOW from a Title 1 Other lower receiver would constitute manufacturing an unsafe handgun under CA PC.

[morrcarr67]

Right, as I thought.



Also keep in mind though that (again, I believe) creating a Title 2 AOW from a Title 1 Other would still subject the Title 2 AOW to compliance with the handgun roster, since CA still views Title 2 AOWs as handguns. So creating a semiautomatic Title 2 AOW from a Title 1 Other lower receiver would constitute manufacturing an unsafe handgun under CA PC.

I agree, going from Title 1 Other lower to Semi-Auto Title 2 AOW could be problematic.

That's why it's best to start with a Title 1 Pistol if you want a Semi-Auto Title 2 AOW.

But, I disagree with the "blanket" thought about building a Title 2 AOW needing to comply with the roster. A lot depends on what you start with. So long as you're not starting from a Title 1 Other that is a stripped lower or frame you can "convert" to something else that still complies with state laws and the roster doesn't apply.

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[seaweedsoyboy]

I agree, going from Title 1 Other lower to Semi-Auto Title 2 AOW could be problematic.

That's why it's best to start with a Title 1 Pistol if you want a Semi-Auto Title 2 AOW.

But, I disagree with the "blanket" thought about building a Title 2 AOW needing to comply with the roster. A lot depends on what you start with. So long as you're not starting from a Title 1 Other that is a stripped lower or frame you can "convert" to something else that still complies with state laws and the roster doesn't apply.

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Yes, agreed. I was only referring to semiautomatic AOWs. If not semiauto, roster shouldn't apply.

[morrcarr67]

Yes, agreed. I was only referring to semiautomatic AOWs. If not semiauto, roster shouldn't apply.

Roster doesn't apply to anything you already own. Converting it to an AOW wouldn't bring the roster into play. The only thing that would bring it into play is if you didn't own it and were trying to buy it through dealer inventory. Because you are correct in saying that CA considers AOWs as handguns, and any handgun you buy needs to be on the roster or acquired through an exemption.



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