AR Pistol Legality Question

[Dieseldog]

Hello All,

I have a question about a Franklin Armory AR pistol that i purchased in 2011. Its the SE-SSP model in the XO-26 configuration. These pistols were made & sold as Single-Shot. It's DROS as a "Handgun" & "Single-Shot". It came equipped with a bullet button & a single-shot sled.

I moved out of CA in 2017. I removed the bullet button & sled after leaving & installed a regular mag catch.

There's a possibility that i may have to move back to CA. If i returned it to its original single-shot configuration (re-installed the bullet button & sled), would it still be legal to bring back into & possess in CA? I missed all the AB1135/SB880 mess. Are there any other options? I'd hate to have to sell it.

Thanks.

[NorCalRefuge]

I don't know about your situation, having moved out of state and would technically be "importing" this firearm back into the state. I think others will chime in here, but my hunch is it'll depend on if your FA AR Pistol is currently on the roster, which currently FA has 3 models, the CA7, CA9 and CA11.

Otherwise, you'll be limited to what's on roster, unless you're LEO/MIL.

BB's aren't a thing anymore - if the firearm is semi-auto you'll have to go with a fixed mag setup (ARMaglock + Kingpin) or Featureless (Sparrow Dynamics Grip, etc). AR Pistols that are single shot only are exempt from fixed mag and featureless. NOTE: A semi-auto AR pistol is only legal in fixed-mag setup, and can have no more than 10 round magazines. (side note, you won't be able to import any standard capacity magazines either...)

Currently, converting a single shot to a semi is legally grey. Lots of folks do, but you're on your own since it's now an "unsafe" handgun, and nobody is really sure what the definition of "manufacture" means in regards to home modifications, and nobody wants to be the test case to find out.

[morrcarr67]

Hello All,

I have a question about a Franklin Armory AR pistol that i purchased in 2011. Its the SE-SSP model in the XO-26 configuration. These pistols were made & sold as Single-Shot. It's DROS as a "Handgun" & "Single-Shot". It came equipped with a bullet button & a single-shot sled.

I moved out of CA in 2017. I removed the bullet button & sled after leaving & installed a regular mag catch.

There's a possibility that i may have to move back to CA. If i returned it to its original single-shot configuration (re-installed the bullet button & sled), would it still be legal to bring back into & possess in CA? I missed all the AB1135/SB880 mess. Are there any other options? I'd hate to have to sell it.

Thanks.

You're SE-SSP is already registered in CA so it is okay to bring it back with you. The BB as you know it has been basically outlawed. If you did not register it as an AW you will need to install one of the "new" fixed magazine solutions.

[Brandqn]

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Moving_to_California_with_firearms

Write an official comment here regarding the pistol brace rule/ban here:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/06/10/2021-12176/factoring-criteria-for-firearms-with-attached-stabilizing-braces

[Dieseldog]

It doesn't have a brace. Why would i need to register it? It was registered when i bought it.

[Dieseldog]

You're SE-SSP is already registered in CA so it is okay to bring it back with you. The BB as you know it has been basically outlawed. If you did not register it as an AW you will need to install one of the "new" fixed magazine solutions.

If i may ask, what are those solutions?

[NorCalRefuge]

If i may ask, what are those solutions?

For a semi-auto Pistol AR, it's only the fixed magazine setup's that are legal.

ARMaglock + KingPin are the go-to solutions for fixed-mags these days.

https://armaglock.com/product/fixed-magazine-lock-ar-maglock-ar-15-223-5-56-gen-4/

You can buy it with a KingPin (replacement takedown pin that acts like a push-button receiver opener)



OR... keep it single shot and you can use a regular magazine release button. You're choice

[morrcarr67]

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Moving_to_California_with_firearms

Write an official comment here regarding the pistol brace rule/ban here:
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...ilizing-braces

It doesn't have a brace. Why would i need to register it? It was registered when i bought it.

You are correct, you do not need to register it when you move back as it was already registered in the state to you.

[Dirk Tungsten]

It doesn't have a brace. Why would i need to register it? It was registered when i bought it.

You wouldn't need to register it, but the deadline to register it as an AW has passed. If it still has the gas system intact, (even if rendered single-shot with the sled) i would be concerned that CA would treat it as an unregistered assault weapon. As has been noted, the Bullet Button no longer works for fixed-magazine compliance.

[morrcarr67]

If i may ask, what are those solutions?

For a semi-auto Pistol AR, it's only the fixed magazine setup's that are legal.

ARMaglock + KingPin are the go-to solutions for fixed-mags these days.

OR... keep it single shot and you can use a regular magazine release button. You're choice

As NorCal mentioned ARMaglock is one of them. I don't believe you NEED the KingPin but from what I've heard it does make it easier. There are other solutions but to be honest with you I have no idea what they are called. I don't own an AR pattern pistol because I don't like any of the solutions.

All of my carbines are featureless, so I have not kept up on what's on the market. To bad there is no way to make a pistol featureless.

[morrcarr67]

OK, I have a question for the OP that I didn't think to ask about before.

Did you mill out the magazine well?

The FA SE-SSP was the first AR pistol listed by name on the roster and it did NOT have a magazine well. It didn't even need a BB because of that.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1212101

[NorCalRefuge]

As NorCal mentioned ARMaglock is one of them. I don't believe you NEED the KingPin but from what I've heard it does make it easier. There are other solutions but to be honest with you I have no idea what they are called. I don't own an AR pattern pistol because I don't like any of the solutions.

All of my carbines are featureless, so I have not kept up on what's on the market. To bad there is no way to make a pistol featureless.

Without the Kingpin (or another pin like it, such as Juggernaut) you have to manually push out the takedown pin, and then your receiver swings open and you have to hold it while trying to eject your mag, etc.

Kingpin (and some others) act as a thumb-button, that opens your reciver a few millimeters (satisfying the legal requirement for disassembly) and holds it there for you - making release of the mag and insertion of a new mag exactly like a vanilla AR.

You basically just squeeze your thumb and index finger at the same time, to eject your mags with an armaglock + kingpin. It becomes a natural movement and is very fast, nearly as fast as just squeezing your index finger to drop a mag.

I say kingpin is the best because it's the smallest, least obtrusive of the pins. Others, like the juggernaut, are bigger and block your safety lever a lot more.

There are other mag locking devices too, but most of them do not allow for automatic bolt-lockback on final shot, or manual bolt hold-open for jam clearing, etc. ARMaglock does, which in my book, makes it the best mag locking device available. It also requires no modification of your receiver, and is removable in minutes with tools. Easy peasy...

[Dieseldog]

OK, I have a question for the OP that I didn't think to ask about before.

Did you mill out the magazine well?

The FA SE-SSP was the first AR pistol listed by name on the roster and it did NOT have a magazine well. It didn't even need a BB because of that.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1212101

I did not. This pistol was made in 2011. FA used a single-shot sled held in place with a BB. It was DROS'd under the single-shot exemption.

I never saw an FA built like that but i do remember the FAB-10's came that way. The bottom of the mag well was welded closed and a shortened mag was inserted from the top. The mag was held in place by a rivet on the front cus there was no mag release on the lower. You had to break it open to reload. You were screwed if it jammed.

[Dieseldog]

For a semi-auto Pistol AR, it's only the fixed magazine setup's that are legal.

ARMaglock + KingPin are the go-to solutions for fixed-mags these days.

https://armaglock.com/product/fixed-magazine-lock-ar-maglock-ar-15-223-5-56-gen-4/

You can buy it with a KingPin (replacement takedown pin that acts like a push-button receiver opener)



OR... keep it single shot and you can use a regular magazine release button. You're choice

What about a Franlklin DFM mag or an FJ hook? I would still need to open the action to load/reload.

[NorCalRefuge]

What about a Franlklin DFM mag or an FJ hook? I would still need to open the action to load/reload.

Use what you want, but neither option let you reload the AR like it was intended... by pressing the mag release and the mag dropping out.

The FC-Hook requires you to fully open your receiver, and use a tool to drop the mag each time you want to reload.

The DFM Mag requires you to fully open your receiver and feed ammo into the magazine, like a top-loader.

If you want to reload your AR like a normal AR AND you want the bolt to automatically hold-open when you fire the last round AND you want to be able to manually lock the bolt open AND you want to use normal AR mags, you will need the ARMaglock. None of the others compare... really.

The Juggernaut pin is very similar to the KingPin - except it's larger and more obtrusive and gets in the way a lot more. It makes operating your safety lever very difficult. The KingPin was the original, and the Juggernaut is a clone (except it's larger).

This video is a joke, but it does show how the ARMaglock + Kingpin work:



No, I'm not the guy in the video, have nothing to do with ARMaglock, blah blah blah... just a happy user. It is indeed, the state of the art for fixed mag setups these days.

Summary:

1) Most fixed mag devices do not have bolt-hold open, neither automatic or manual. This is a serious problem for clearing jams like double-feeds. It also makes your AR not behave like an AR.

2) Many fixed mag devices require permanent modification to your receiver - even if the device itself is removable (ie. drilling, etc).

3) Some fixed mag devices require the receiver be opened completely to reload, ie. upper is 90* opened from the lower.

4) Some fixed mag devices require tools to reload.

ARMaglock has none of these issues, and when paired with a KingPin it's the winning combination. Case closed

So, in short, just buy an ARMaglock + Kingpin and call it a day. Get Gen 4 ARMaglock so you can adjust it's fit to your AR (so it doesn't rattle, etc). If you don't care about adjustability, get Gen 2. Gen 1 is old and can't be used with modern pins (don't buy this), and 3 auto-drops the magazine when the receiver is opened, making it useless for anything except competition.