LAPD adopts FN509 as new duty pistol

[OCEquestrian]

Well, because most people aren't business people.

My questions on cost and value are rhetorical, meant to maybe direct the discussion to the fact that LAPD is spending a boatload of money to replace guns that are perfectly serviceable for no real reason.

The LAPD clearly sees significant benefit to the red dot on pistols' and feels that better marksmanship immediately improves officer and public safety... how do YOU put a price tag on that?

LAPD needed the ability to quickly and securely mount a variety of duty-rated micro red dots to their service pistols to improve the accuracy potential of their handguns and their officers

You could go and order replacement slides from Glock and deal with the inherent liability issue of your own armorers putting new slides on the old frames, or you could go thru the time and expense of sending all the old Glocks back to Glock so Glock could do that...eliminates the LAPD liability but would Glock even want to do that and what would officers do while their guns were out for new slides?

at the underlined above!

[Robert1234]

The LAPD clearly sees significant benefit to the red dot on pistols' and feels that better marksmanship immediately improves officer and public safety... how do YOU put a price tag on that?

LAPD needed the ability to quickly and securely mount a variety of duty-rated micro red dots to their service pistols to improve the accuracy potential of their handguns and their officers

You could go and order replacement slides from Glock and deal with the inherent liability issue of your own armorers putting new slides on the old frames, or you could go thru the time and expense of sending all the old Glocks back to Glock so Glock could do that...eliminates the LAPD liability but would Glock even want to do that and what would officers do while their guns were out for new slides?

at the underlined above!

It's easy to see benefit in something when you're spending other people's money on it.

Now you're going to have a bunch of low skilled gun carriers never learning the fundamentals of aiming. They'll be no better or faster than they'd be with iron sights. If you don't practice, a dot won't make you a better shooter.

But I don't live in LA, so it doesn't affect me so whatever.

[benjamin101677]

In my opinion this is a huge selling point for the gun company now. Now they can market to other agencies and people will buy because of what LAPD carries.

Too bad California is so crazy or there should be a law that no law enforcement agency should be able to carry a off roster gun for duty weapons. Should make it automatically onto the roster when a department chooses a gun.

[Robert1234]

In my opinion this is a huge selling point for the gun company now. Now they can market to other agencies and people will buy because of what LAPD carries.

Too bad California is so crazy or there should be a law that no law enforcement agency should be able to carry a off roster gun for duty weapons. Should make it automatically onto the roster when a department chooses a gun.

Yeah, agreed. All roster exemptions need to go away.

[Mute]

Well, because most people aren't business people.

My questions on cost and value are rhetorical, meant to maybe direct the discussion to the fact that LAPD is spending a boatload of money to replace guns that are perfectly serviceable for no real reason.

While I don't like seeing our government waste money, it would be inaccurate to say that there is NO real reason for the change. The majority of the officers (especially female officers) are in fact shooting better and passing their quals with less practice rounds used as well as less time in remediation when carrying 9mm. Making a 9mm pistol the duty pistol as opposed to the current .40 cal G22 does make sense logistically.

[M1NM]

Couple of questions.

LAPD is still allowed to carry guns?

Was there something wrong with their existing guns? Were they used up, shot out, or in any other way unserviceable? Did the existing guns have an inordinate number of rounds through them? Is LAPD shooting so much that they're wearing out their guns?

Or is this just another vanity move by a police department to get some shiny new toys at taxpayer expense?

And what's going to happen to all of the existing guns, will they be destroyed so they don't fall into the hands of children and miscreants, or sold onto the black market where they can continue the scourge of gun violence plaguing this state?

Think of the children!!!

They will probably order in lots of 500 or 1000 to issue to new cops or replace old worn out guns. Different units within LAPD have different rules on what they can carry. I knew a detective who kept his revolver until he retired when most had gone to the auto. You're more likely to find the gang and swat guys toting a 40 or 45.

[Tere_Hanges]

Cool story, derp. This isnt a forum for learning how to read at 4th grade level.

[WWDHD?]

It's easy to see benefit in something when you're spending other people's money on it.

Now you're going to have a bunch of low skilled gun carriers never learning the fundamentals of aiming. They'll be no better or faster than they'd be with iron sights. If you don't practice, a dot won't make you a better shooter.

But I don't live in LA, so it doesn't affect me so whatever.

If LAPD does it- you know other LE dept's are looking close at it too.

[Robert1234]

They will probably order in lots of 500 or 1000 to issue to new cops or replace old worn out guns. Different units within LAPD have different rules on what they can carry. I knew a detective who kept his revolver until he retired when most had gone to the auto. You're more likely to find the gang and swat guys toting a 40 or 45.

When you allow your "very special operators" carry something other than what everyone else is required to carry, the implication is that everyone else is carrying inferior gear.

Is there any reason every cop isn't required to carry the same handgun? Cause logistically it would make sense to require that.

Is there something about a Glock 22, Beretta 92, or whatever gun is mandated for Joe Everyday Cop that the "very special operators" must carry something different?

That was rhetorical, there's no valid reason for the "very special operators" in LAPD to carry anything different than regular cops.

Other than detectives and those carrying concealed who require something smaller, there's no justification to spend taxpayer money on what amounts to status symbols.

[Palmaris]

You are equating perfection with low bidder?

Government purchases = low bidder unless it's a toilet for the Space Station or security for legislators.

[bb557]

Look up the LAPD pistol qual. If you can't find it, any police department pistol qual in America will do. Now go shoot it. If you passed it that means you can fog a mirror when held up to your mouth. You'll quickly see whatever gun a local police force carries means about as much as what pistol was adopted by the US Army.

I have no dog in this selection issue, but that is the truth. I shot the LAPD qual test in a class and a drunk monkey with a High Point could do it.

[SCVlongstroke]

I have no dog in this selection issue, but that is the truth. I shot the LAPD qual test in a class and a drunk monkey with a High Point could do it.

A dead monkey would pass the CCW requirement, no sights needed.

[Robert1234]

A dead monkey would pass the CCW requirement, no sights needed.

The difference is the dead monkey who passed his CCW test would still be subject to arrest if he accidentally shot the wrong person, the dead monkey who passed the LAPD firearms qualifications test and wears a uniform would not.

[Blownmotor]

If they want to save money, just issue them 22LR handguns

[bb557]

A dead monkey would pass the CCW requirement, no sights needed.

Also true.