Striker Fired vs. 1911 Condition 0?

[Robert1234]

[QUOTE=madmike88;24116279]

Thumb under the safety on a 1911? Why? It's too easy to re-engage the safety while shooting it that way.

:SMH:

re-read the post you quoted.

[DArBad]

I’m hoping you folks could educate me on something as I go about choosing my next firearm.

I’m interested in another handgun and have always leaned towards semi-automatics with manual safeties (it’s what I”m used to from the military).

.........

Tell us what specific brand and model of firearm you are considering, then we can zero in on its pros and cons. Every style of handgun have their own quirks and limitations. Know the boundaries, respect those boundaries and don't go beyond those boundaries and you will be safe.

No firearm is perfect for everyone, for every situation. Getting familiar and training with your chosen firearm is the gist. All these argument of which is a safer handgun in a hypothetical given situation is purely academic.

I've owned 1911s, revolvers, Berettas, Glocks, and XDs. They are all safe and unsafe depending on how you train and how intimately familiar you are with each as you carry what.

[Dvrjon]

[NoNameThanks]

Tell us what specific brand and model of firearm you are considering, then we can zero in on its pros and cons. Every style of handgun have their own quirks and limitations. Know the boundaries, respect those boundaries and don't go beyond those boundaries and you will be safe.

[SG29736]

If someone's skill level is low enough that they require more time when drawing and disengaging a thumb safety before they are on target compared to a gun without a thumb safety then use one without a thumb safety. Or learn and practice to get your skills to the level that it doesnt slow you down. Also, some people feel good thinking they are smarter then everyone else, including the experts, and work hard to find something to demonstrate how much smarter they are.

[Great Made America]

Indeed, the P365 is a fantastic gun. Everyone has different experiences, levels of training, preferences in safeties and ergonomics, etc.
Take some training and you'll not only get a sense of what works best for you, you will hopefully get good input on all of the fundamentals of the draw, stance, grip, etc. With more experience, you tend to form preferences for certain firearms and safety systems.

Every class I've taken, there are always shooters who draw and try to shoot without disengaging the safety, and others who attempt to reholster without engaging the safety. It happens 5-10 times every time I take a class, and these are not newbies.

Whatever you choose to carry, train a lot with it. No matter how prepared we are, defending yourself will be exponentially more intense than shooting passive targets.
If you put a few guns on your permit, consider having all similar safety systems.
Some who regularly carry a 1911 will tell you that when they train with a Glock (for example), they're habitually feeling for the safety before firing. Just some things to consider.

As far as carrying striker-fired guns without external safeties, millions are carried daily....Glock, Sig, CZ, HK, Walther and so on. Every finger needs a contact point away from the trigger. No wandering fingers.

[mikal1911]

Don’t over do it with modifications, good Kydex holster (Tenicor, JM Custom), and good holster practice (finger off the trigger, look your gun into the holster) you’ll be fine

[madmike88]

[QUOTE=Robert1234;24116305]

re-read the post you quoted.

I realized my post wasn't the clearest.

I wasn't referring to the poster I was referring to untrained 1911 shooters who don't put their thumb on the safety.

:/

[tomrkba]

It's rather simple:

Modern guns will have at least one internal safety that prevents the firing pin from moving forward if the block is not moved out of the way by trigger movement. Many striker fired guns such as the Glock, S&W M&P, etc, will have a lever on the trigger that reduces the odds of an object unintentionally moving the trigger.

The main thing here is that you have to convince yourself that a handgun in a well built holster will not discharge randomly on its own. My first gun was a SIG P220 and it has only internal safeties. I trained myself out if this concern by carrying the gun for two full days with a brand new snap cap in the chamber. At the end of the day, there were no primer indents in the back of the plastic snap cap. I decided after the first day that the gun was safe, but did it for a second day just to be sure.

This video shows the firing pin block moving up so the striker can move past:



The arrow points to the block and the red part is a channel that permits the striker to pass by.

[Glockfan1973]

If you are used to a safety then just carry a gun with a safety. Like use I carried pistols in the military, so as soon as the gun comes out that safety is off

[Tiberius]

There's a large but mostly quiet group who agree with OP. The reality is that a pen, coin, loop of cloth, or whatever can hit the trigger of a Glock-style, or 1911 condition zero, and . . . bang. Yes, this would be user error. Yes, it shouldn't happen. However, cars have bumpers and seat belts. Cyclists wear helmets. Bad things happen all the time.

Carrying IWB or in a pocket seems to increase the possibility of something getting near the trigger. You can remember for 1000 straight times to put your keys in the other pocket. But then that one time, when the holster is also worn (more user error) and . . . . Having a manual safety adds a layer of protection. It's critical of course to practice with it and be comfortable deactivating it on the draw.

I know a number of folks who only CCW weapons with manual safeties. And many who feel the opposite.

[tomrkba]

There's a large but mostly quiet group who agree with OP. The reality is that a pen, coin, loop of cloth, or whatever can hit the trigger of a Glock-style, or 1911 condition zero, and . . . bang. Yes, this would be user error. Yes, it shouldn't happen. However, cars have bumpers and seat belts. Cyclists wear helmets. Bad things happen all the time.

Carrying IWB or in a pocket seems to increase the possibility of something getting near the trigger. You can remember for 1000 straight times to put your keys in the other pocket. But then that one time, when the holster is also worn (more user error) and . . . . Having a manual safety adds a layer of protection. It's critical of course to practice with it and be comfortable deactivating it on the draw.

I know a number of folks who only CCW weapons with manual safeties. And many who feel the opposite.

"seems"

That is all it is...an emotional influence upon the choice.

I watched a guy discharge his P229 while holstering in class. He was using an OWB pancake holster. His jacket's cord stay wormed its way into the trigger guard during the process. Instead of backing off and looking, he pressed harder. The bullet went through his pocket and into the dirt behind him.

Anything can happen at any time while messing around with holsters regardless of type. Look the gun into the holster. Use light pressure and stop if anything is amiss. Holstering is an administrative action, not a combat action; don't do it if you are still in danger. Avoiding one type of holster based upon imaginary stories that another is "safer" is foolish. None of them are "safe" and all must be used with caution at all times.

(Personally, I use both styles of guns. I am wearing a SIG P320 with manual safety as I write this, but have a Glock sitting on the table next to me. I like them all. )

[tomk556]

[Dvrjon]

The reality is that a pen, coin, loop of cloth, or whatever can hit the trigger of a Glock-style, or 1911 condition zero, and . . . bang.

Carrying IWB or in a pocket seems to increase the possibility of something getting near the trigger.

Carry guns in holster.
Don’t carry pens, coins, loops of cloth, car keys, whatever in holster.

[IVC]

Am I wrong for being uncomfortable with carrying one? I sure would be uncomfortable carrying a 1911 with the safety off. Am I looking at this wrong?

You're not wrong with being uncomfortable (it's how you feel, so it is what it is), but you are looking wrong at it.

First, modern carry guns are part of a system, where the other part is a kydex custom fit holster with retention. You don't look at gun in isolation, you look at "gun and holster." I don't even take my carry guns out of their holsters, just take the combo off of my belt and put it in the safe.

Second, a striker fired gun without safety is not in the same condition as a fully cocked hammer fired gun. The striker is almost always at a tension that is insufficient to ignite the primer even if the sear completely failed. Further, you will find that all carry guns have a firing pin block, which is a piece of metal that will physically block firing pin from hitting the primer unless trigger is pulled, even if the sear completely fails.

With that said, the bane of striker fired pistols is the inadvertent trigger pull during reholstering (or during carrying, if you're one of the dumb ones to carry a Glock without a holster). This is something that you have to be comfortable with and you have to have a good protocol for dealing with reholstering. So, proper holster and a reholstering protocol and you're good to go.