New G19X ?

[Svashtar]

New G19X ?

The modularity conditions were from the military. Glock failed the 1st requirement right out of the box... the main requirement was that the pistol was to be non-caliber specific. What did Glock do? they submitted a caliber specific pistol... They should've been happy the military allowed them to even compete after failing that one... There's a ton of info on the XM17 trials on the www if you want to learn more about it.



I don't agree, 2 different things IMHO. The 1911 is a classic design, that people appreciate and continue to pursue because of how well it works. Grandfather to the HP, and the CZ after it... I'm not even a 1911 guy, and I get it...

The Glock gets it reputation from the perception that because so many LEO's carry them, that they're the best... BS, LEO's carry them because of the pricing Glock offers them. The vary thing, you're complaining that Sig has done with the XM17...

[RollingCode3]

Huh? The reason they lost is because the contract was for a modular pistol. Aaaand, Glock did what they always do... repackage the same old terd. Of course, in typical Glock fashion- they then got upset about it...

Glock- If you ever read this... Put away your hot pants and get out of the 80's!

The modularity conditions were from the military. Glock failed the 1st requirement right out of the box... the main requirement was that the pistol was to be non-caliber specific. What did Glock do? they submitted a caliber specific pistol... They should've been happy the military allowed them to even compete after failing that one... There's a ton of info on the XM17 trials on the www if you want to learn more about it.



I don't agree, 2 different things IMHO. The 1911 is a classic design, that people appreciate and continue to pursue because of how well it works. Grandfather to the HP, and the CZ after it... I'm not even a 1911 guy, and I get it...

The Glock gets it reputation from the perception that because so many LEO's carry them, that they're the best... BS, LEO's carry them because of the pricing Glock offers them. The vary thing, you're complaining that Sig has done with the XM17...

[mjmagee67]

The problem they were solving was quite simple and quite real. They were trying to get a government contract and the 19X was designed to fit the contract specs. The reason for saling to the public is to recoup design costs and make GlockBoi hard.

[Svashtar]

New G19X ?

The problem they were solving was quite simple and quite real. They were trying to get a government contract and the 19X was designed to fit the contract specs. The reason for saling to the public is to recoup design costs and make GlockBoi hard.

[OCEquestrian]

SiG won, Glock lost... get over it and move on... kinda like the advice we all give the liberals regarding the presidential election...

[AFTII]

Sig won because they offered $100 million cheaper.

Fact: Certain firearms manufacturers bid for the contract to supply pistols to the US Army.

Fact: The trials were painstakingly long and costly.

Fact: The government could have picked up to three winners.

"The Government intends to award up to three (3) Firm Fixed Price (FFP), Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contracts based on the results of the initial evaluation of the proposal submission by following the evaluation procedure contained in section M of this RFP."

"Each MHS offeror could propose either a one-handgun solution of a full-size handgun, or a two-handgun solution consisting of a full-size handgun and a compact handgun. Id. Offerors were also required to propose prices for ball, special purpose, blank and dummy drilled inert ammunition, as well prices for accessories and spare parts."

"The combination of all non-price factors was significantly more important than price.the Sig Sauer proposal has a slight technical advantage over the Glock proposal given that their proposal was rated higher in Factor 1, Bid Sample Test – Technical which is the most important factor. The advantage of the Sig Sauer proposal is increased when the license rights and production manufacturing factors are brought into consideration. [. . .] The price analysis shows that the Sig Sauer total evaluated price is $102,705,394 less than the Glock total evaluated price, making the Sig Sauer proposal overall the Best Value to the Government."

"Sig Sauer’s proposal was slightly superior technically and clearly superior in factors 4 and 5. Since there were so few other discriminators between
the two proposals in most aspects, the least important factor, price, became a significant discriminator. Simply put, when taking the price premium into account, there is no correlating superior performance factor for Glock, as compared to Sig Sauer, to support paying that premium. Consequently, I cannot justify paying a price premium of over 37% for the Glock submission, even as a second award. One (1) award to Sig Sauer on Solicitation Number W15QKN-15-R-0002 represents the overall best value to the Government.

"In not making an award to Glock, the source selection authority (SSA) found that Sig Sauer held a “slight technical advantage.” AR, Tab 3, SSDD, at 24. However, in deciding to make only one award, when “up to three” were permitted, the SSA found “no correlating superior performance factor for Glock, as compared to Sig Sauer, to support paying that premium.” Id."

Fact: Glock appealed.

Fact: Glock lost the appeal because Sig presented a technically superior pistol, with better support which was also significantly cheaper.

You can read it all, straight from the horse's mouth, here. https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/685461.pdf

[mjmagee67]

Fact: Certain firearms manufacturers bid for the contract to supply pistols to the US Army.

Fact: The trials were painstakingly long and costly.

Fact: The government could have picked up to three winners.

"The Government intends to award up to three (3) Firm Fixed Price (FFP), Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contracts based on the results of the initial evaluation of the proposal submission by following the evaluation procedure contained in section M of this RFP."

"Each MHS offeror could propose either a one-handgun solution of a full-size handgun, or a two-handgun solution consisting of a full-size handgun and a compact handgun. Id. Offerors were also required to propose prices for ball, special purpose, blank and dummy drilled inert ammunition, as well prices for accessories and spare parts."

"The combination of all non-price factors was significantly more important than price.the Sig Sauer proposal has a slight technical advantage over the Glock proposalclearly superior in factors 4 and 5. Since there were so few other discriminators between
the two proposals in most aspects, the least important factor, price, became a significant discriminator. Simply put, when taking the price premium into account, there is no correlating superior performance factor for Glock, as compared to Sig Sauer, to support paying that premiumhttps://www.gao.gov/assets/690/685461.pdf

Ouch, someone get Glock Fanboi a tissue..........

[RollingCode3]

Fact: Certain firearms manufacturers bid for the contract to supply pistols to the US Army.

Fact: The trials were painstakingly long and costly.

Fact: The government could have picked up to three winners.

"The Government intends to award up to three (3) Firm Fixed Price (FFP), Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contracts based on the results of the initial evaluation of the proposal submission by following the evaluation procedure contained in section M of this RFP."

"Each MHS offeror could propose either a one-handgun solution of a full-size handgun, or a two-handgun solution consisting of a full-size handgun and a compact handgun. Id. Offerors were also required to propose prices for ball, special purpose, blank and dummy drilled inert ammunition, as well prices for accessories and spare parts."

"The combination of all non-price factors was significantly more important than price.the Sig Sauer proposal has a slight technical advantage over the Glock proposalclearly superior in factors 4 and 5. Since there were so few other discriminators between
the two proposals in most aspects, the least important factor, price, became a significant discriminator. Simply put, when taking the price premium into account, there is no correlating superior performance factor for Glock, as compared to Sig Sauer, to support paying that premiumhttps://www.gao.gov/assets/690/685461.pdf

Did the Government fail in its evaluation process for the MHS ? Yes they certainly did!

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/07/14/opinion-government-fail-evaluation-process-mhs-yes-certainly/

[mjmagee67]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...yes-certainly/

Nice opinion piece.......

[AFTII]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...yes-certainly/

I'm not going to watch your video. It's irrelevant. It doesn't change a thing I wrote above. It's not going to change the decision I posted. It's simply an opinion, not fact. Some would call it "fake news." What I wrote was based upon fact, the actual appeals ruling, - not conjecture or woulda, coulda and shoulda.

The unfortunate reality is that some people refuse to accept losses and make excuses because there favorite [gun/baseball team/hockey team/ yadda yadda] didn't win. Sometimes they do this because they have a personal financial or emotional stake in the outcome. That's fine. But, recognizing that $$ makes the world go around, I really don't care about their opinions. I care about facts. So, I tend to look at things objectively.

In my corner of the universe, I believe that if you are going to play in the game, you have to play by the rules of the game. Except in Snowflakeville, CA, that means someone is going to win and someone is going to lose. In this instance, the USA decided not to reward a second place showing. No A for effort as it were. So Glock lost. There is plenty of factual and legal support for why Glock lost. That Glock lost is history. Appeals are over. That fact is not going to change. It's time to move along. There's nothing left to see here.

Had Glock been cheated, I would sharpen up my machete and go out looking for heads. (Well, not really.) But, Glock wasn't screwed. At best, it screwed itself by overbidding the project by $100,000,000 +. As a friend used to say, "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered." Glock got slaughtered. But hey, Glock will make it up on suckers like me who want a G19X.

[Oldmandan]

This thread has become really weird... the facts have been presented, why can’t some deal with that?

Gaston is that you? You lost Gaston, can we move on... Or more accurately, can you move on to designing something that’s actually “new”, and stop treating gun buyers like idiots by repackaging your old wares as new designs...

Breaking news... Gen6 has just been revealed... aaaaand we’re back to finger grooves.... Glock Perfection!

[Svashtar]

[crufflers]

Some people just HATE Glock. Kind of like religion. No point in reasoning with them because it is subjective. I used to hate them too so I have a pretty fair perspective IMHO. I'm not the kind of DB who chimes up in the LGS when a customer is checking out a potential Glock purchase either. Some people here probably cannot keep their yaps shut trying to tell someone else what they should like. Either that or they think what MIL or LEO adopt has spit to do with them at home and pretend there is no roster. I've said it before... I'd go on a Canik binge in a free state. I don't live in one.

[crufflers]

Sootch on mag base plates and modular requirement of the Mil trials.

[tbc]

I almost fell asleep watching that video. The military test protocol is just for formality. It adds no value to truly determine which platform is the best for them since the same gun with different manufacturing date will perform differently. So of course they chose the one with less cost.