80% 1911 Frame?

[Varg Vikernes]

While there are some things I disagree with Rick on the post you mentioned of his is right on.

Pretty sure that home builds aren't affected by the end of SSE, but yes I understand that if you build something it has to be patterned on something that exsists.

[RickD427]

^^^ wrong.Randall has posted on another post about this . 80% 1011s do not need above mentioned items chamber indicator etc. More fud on here.

Pretty sure this is FUD.

I was thinking of getting this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/stealth-arms-1911-lower-receiver-jig-kit?a=1747832

and a Mill sometime after.

You will need a mill because you wanna do it right. There is gonna be a lot of hand fitting with a 1911 too so do it right.

Gents,

I'm always open to a good discussion on the issues. If you believe that there is some exemption from PC 32000 for home builds, please provide the appropriate citation.

I've been good enough to cite the law supporting the positions that I've argued and would be grateful if you would do the same.

[Varg Vikernes]

Gents,

I'm always open to a good discussion on the issues. If you believe that there is some exemption from PC 32000 for home builds, please provide the appropriate citation.

I've been good enough to cite the law supporting the positions that I've argued and would be grateful if you would do the same.

You may be right, I'm reading it now. It was always my understanding that home builds weren't touched, but I could very well be wrong.

[RickD427]

You may be right, I'm reading it now. It was always my understanding that home builds weren't touched, but I could very well be wrong.

Varg,

I think you'll find some interesting things as you walk through the code. The Penal Code contains a number of internal references to other parts of the code, and it is also written so that some parts of the code only have a limited scope of application. I always encourage folks to get a big piece of paper and then trace out the referenced sections of code to see how they connect. Then draw circles around the diagram to illustrate how the limited scope sections apply. Kinda like engineers do with process and Venn diagrams.

You'll also find that there were a lot of assumptions made by legislators when the statutes were written. That will become very clear when you parse out the "Safe Handgun" statute. The law clearly assumes that builders are commercial manufacturers. But at the same time, the activities of the personal builder fall under the same provisions, and there is no exemption for the personal builder from the onerous burdens placed on commercial manufactures. Someone clearly got left out of the statute drafting process and that was the personal builder.

But even with the understanding that the law does not adequately provide for the personal builder, that does not create an exemption from the law for the personal builder.

[Fozzie TheBear]

Still possible, here is one option: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...php?p=15855271

[DnS121111]

Either way I need a good frame under 200 some good parts for the build and a Dan Wesson complete upper either the Gardian or the Razorback.

[edgerly779]

I just put another tm on my wish list on their site. I picked up a bunch of 1911 takeoff parts on here last nite. Saved me going to ontario gun show to find a new sear and a slide stop.

[umd]

Pretty sure that home builds aren't affected by the end of SSE

SSE hasn't ended.

[Waking Heavy]

Frames and jigs here:

http://www.stealtharms.net/shop/

[rivraton]

Pretty sure this is FUD.

I was thinking of getting this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/stealth-arms-1911-lower-receiver-jig-kit?a=1747832

and a Mill sometime after.

You will need a mill because you wanna do it right. There is gonna be a lot of hand fitting with a 1911 too so do it right.

You can complete this 1911 with a drill press and a cross feed vise, no mill required.

[DnS121111]

I was thinking Stealth Arms too. Parts who should I use gor a complete lower parts kit. Where can I get a Complete Dan Wesson Slide?

[rivraton]

Varg,

I think you'll find some interesting things as you walk through the code. The Penal Code contains a number of internal references to other parts of the code, and it is also written so that some parts of the code only have a limited scope of application. I always encourage folks to get a big piece of paper and then trace out the referenced sections of code to see how they connect. Then draw circles around the diagram to illustrate how the limited scope sections apply. Kinda like engineers do with process and Venn diagrams.

You'll also find that there were a lot of assumptions made by legislators when the statutes were written. That will become very clear when you parse out the "Safe Handgun" statute. The law clearly assumes that builders are commercial manufacturers. But at the same time, the activities of the personal builder fall under the same provisions, and there is no exemption for the personal builder from the onerous burdens placed on commercial manufactures. Someone clearly got left out of the statute drafting process and that was the personal builder.

But even with the understanding that the law does not adequately provide for the personal builder, that does not create an exemption from the law for the personal builder.

Let me ask this, if you have a stripped 1911 frame that was acquired without breaking any California laws, would anything in the "Unsafe handgun law" preclude you from completing the firearm with commercially available parts?

[edgerly779]

we are talking about 80% 1911 frames. Not stripped frames do a search function and find out.

[boosterboy]

the "1911 Builders" 80% frames from 1911builders.com are amazing, the machining work is spectacular

[RickD427]

Let me ask this, if you have a stripped 1911 frame that was acquired without breaking any California laws, would anything in the "Unsafe handgun law" preclude you from completing the firearm with commercially available parts?

Rivraton,

Please keep in mind that IANAL, just a retired LEO.

You've got a really good question there, and one the illustrates the "hair splitting" of the law very clearly.

IMHO, if you have a commercially manufactured frame, and then add the required components to make it a functional firearm, I would not see a violation.

However, please keep in mind that had SB808 passed last year, then the fitting out of a commercially made frame would have been illegal because of the way that bill would have added a definition of "manufacturing" to the Penal Code.

The situation becomes different when your lawfully acquired 1911 receiver is one that you manufactured yourself. Many folks make the argument that you can lawfully manufacture your own 1911 receiver (I personally believe this is true, but you can also easily read the Zip Gun statute to make it a felony). Once that "manufacturing" process is done, then those same folks argue that you can lawfully complete the frame using commercially made parts. That argument relies on the "manufacturing" and "completing" activities being separate from each other. The competing argument is since you're doing all the work yourself, there is no distinction between the two. The problem is that there is no statute, or case law, that compels a court to accept the first POV. If they go with the second POV, then you're convicted.

That outcome is not possible with a commercially manufactured receiver. All of the "manufacturing" steps have been completed before you took possession.

Big difference there. It's about how you split the hair.