Fix The Site Or Shut It Down

[BPK]

As I've said and as you have acknowledged, the site DOES work. It just doesn't work as consistently/conveniently as you'd like or demand. You went down the track of 'better.' This is the FULL post you were responding to...

You fail to understand today's standards about website uptime. Uptime of 99.9% is considered minimum and that is what users should expect from a 'working website'. 99.9% allows for 8.76 hours of unplanned downtime. Planned downtime (maintenance, updates/upgrades, patching, etc) is not icluded in this figure.

No matter how much you'd like, you can't redefine widely accepted standard just to fit your narrative. When users say calguns.net is broken, it's because calguns.net is broken.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

You fail to understand today's standards about website uptime. Uptime of 99.9% is considered minimum and that is what users should expect from a 'working website'. 99.9% allows for 8.76 hours of unplanned downtime. Planned downtime (maintenance, updates/upgrades, patching, etc) is not icluded in this figure.

No matter how much you'd like, you can't redefine widely accepted standard just to fit your narrative. When users say calguns.net is broken, it's because calguns.net is broken.

I'm not 'failing to understand' anything.

We all know that the site has issues. Anyone who fails to acknowledge that is a fool.

What you're failing to note is what I just said; i.e., accusations (often via innuendo) and claims are exaggerated to justify demands and 'excuse' chivvying for the site owner to 'do something' or 'fix it or finish it or sell out.' If you'd spend time 'keeping track,' you'd find that many/most of us have acknowledged the problems; but, instead of simply grousing about them and issuing demands of 'fix it or shut it down,' we identify the actual problem from our perspective in the hope that it will help identify the cause, making it easier and more accessible to fix. We don't offer lip service, claiming it's simply a lack of skill/expertise or money (or worse things which have been posted) that's at the root of why it hasn't been completely fixed, often completely ignoring what we've been repeatedly told and warned about for years.

It's the very reason many have said that one either has to accept the site, as it currently is, and 'trust' that the work we've been told is in progress is happening or move elsewhere until it complies with whatever you personally feel is appropriate. It's also the reason I have said If you prefer the other site, by all means, contribute over there. If you think this site isn't working and is doomed, by all means, don't bother to stick around. You see, whatever 'standard' or 'metric' you wish to pull out and/or tout, the bottom line is that a business survives because customers still utilize it. Don't want to patronize the site, that's your choice. What isn't up to you or me is to tell other customers or the business owner what they must do. Neither is it up to you or me to demand the business owner meet whatever metric is being demanded at a given moment as if they aren't aware of 'industry standards.' Short version, if it doesn't meet your vision of an usable or useful website, you vote with your usage. Continuously beating a drum demanding a business owner comply with your, personal sense of utility or some sort of standard simply isn't how Life works.

You see, the discussion in this thread isn't about whether this site isn't working up to snuff. The discussion in this thread is about members projecting their choice of 'acceptability' on to the rest of us and demanding we abide by it.

What far too many are ignoring is the reality that many find this place to still be usable or useful to them, to whatever degree and they are willing to tolerate the deficits, for now, while work is in progress. As I've stated, quite a few times, if our faith in the site and/or Kestryll is misplaced, we'll find out and act accordingly. Put another way, it's not about industry standards regarding website uptime. It's about what members here still feel and see as a sense of 'community.' Every community has its trials and tribulations and if you don't want to be a part of that, then you are acknowledging that you don't wish to be a part of what is involved in being a community.

[BPK]

I'm not 'failing to understand' anything.

Mr. infallible

we identify the actual problem from our perspective in the hope that it will help identify the cause, making it easier and more accessible to fix.

Just stop it. You have not identified anything in addition to what every other user has.

often completely ignoring what we've been repeatedly told and warned about for years.

That iTrader doesn't work with newer versions of vBulletin, which has nothing to do with gateway timeouts and why they happen.

What isn't up to you or me is to tell other customers or the business owner what they must do. Neither is it up to you or me to demand the business owner meet whatever metric is being demanded at a given moment as if they aren't aware of 'industry standards.' Short version, if it doesn't meet your vision of an usable or useful website, you vote with your usage. Continuously beating a drum demanding a business owner comply with your, personal sense of utility or some sort of standard simply isn't how Life works.

It's exactly how it works. Whether or not it's successful, it's another matter.[/QUOTE]

You see, the discussion in this thread isn't about whether this site isn't working up to snuff. The discussion in this thread is about members projecting their choice of 'acceptability' on to the rest of us and demanding we abide by it.

Oh the arrogance. It's not up to you to tell what it is about. That's up to the readers to decide. Or do you really think, that all with different opinion, are illiterate.

What far too many are ignoring is the reality that many find this place to still be usable or useful to them, to whatever degree and they are willing to tolerate the deficits, for now, while work is in progress. As I've stated, quite a few times, if our faith in the site and/or Kestryll is misplaced, we'll find out and act accordingly. Put another way, it's not about industry standards regarding website uptime. It's about what members here still feel and see as a sense of 'community.' Every community has its trials and tribulations and if you don't want to be a part of that, then you are acknowledging that you don't wish to be a part of what is involved in being a community.

I see, what you prefer and want is collective hive mind. When users complain or disagree you feel compelled to write an essay to rein them in. If they don't comply, you stamp them as delinquents. That's very stalinesque of you.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Mr. infallible

I see. Insults rather than discourse. Not exactly useful.

Just stop it. You have not identified anything in addition to what every other user has.


That iTrader doesn't work with newer versions of vBulletin, which has nothing to do with gateway timeouts and why they happen.

All you're demonstrating is that you haven't been paying attention. There have been myriad variations of reported problems. As I've said, numerous times, it appears as though there is a link between the technology being used by the individual and the problems they encounter, at least in relation to some issues. Thus, it takes more than just me to report something. Likewise, if a number of members report a problem, it's more likely to be an actual problem than user error and it might help narrow down the source of the problem. But, remember, report a problem, not demand a fix or else.

iTrader is a big one. We still get members asking about it and/or looking for it. However, it is just ONE issue; but, I'm glad to see you caught the idea that it was limited to a particular iteration of the software. Gateway timeouts are simply another issue and there are variants on that, with entire sites dedicated to discussing what they are.

It's exactly how it works. Whether or not it's successful, it's another matter.

Providing feedback is one thing. Issuing demands is something else. Chivvying other customers is something else again. The latter two are likely not to play well in Peoria.

Oh the arrogance. It's not up to you to tell what it is about. That's up to the readers to decide. Or do you really think, that all with different opinion, are illiterate.

Yet, you feel free to tell us what it is about? Mmmm. There is such a thing as 'thread drift,' but the idea that someone can come in and declare 'their intent' as the main topic of a given thread, without having started the thread and only minimally engaging in the thread, all the while having their own agenda is... uh...

I see, what you prefer and want is collective hive mind. When users complain or disagree you feel compelled to write an essay to rein them in. If they don't comply, you stamp them as delinquents. That's very stalinesque of you.

More with the insults? Demands can be terse, explanations as to why such demands are unrealistic (not to mention irrelevant in some cases) can take a bit more exposition. You see, the 'complaint department' isn't a thread where one throws temper tantrums or expounds upon their grievances or demands action. It's a private message. 'Advertising' for another website, particularly one where many of the members on the other site feel as if they are a competitor, aren't what threads are for; i.e., you pay to advertise and pushing for something different than the mainline membership still here wish to have, not to mention desire to preserve, by way of a website (think 'historical information' and 'community' as opposed to strictly a place to trade, make bland posts within the restrictions of the owner's aesthetics, etc.) isn't exactly conducive to smooth relations.

I have a preference for a 'collective hive mind?' Clearly, just your low post count (25 in almost 9 years?) isn't the only thing indicative of your lack of participation in the community which exists on this site or your interactions with me.

[stormvet]

W?

Figures the rainbow coon would show up during drag month.

[ikeo]

Figures the rainbow coon would show up during drag month.

This is where the parade is at right? 😀

[chrisw]

This is where the parade is at right? 😀

Up to 24 posts. Time to start deleting!

[BPK]

Lots of blah, blah

Nothing but deflections and projections. You should be studied. I've never seen as much blame shifting, shame dumping, victim blaming in a single thread by a single person that isn't a politician, lawyer or a psychopath.

Wasting time here. I'm out of this thread.

[stormvet]

This is where the parade is at right? 😀

No gay area boy it’s right outside your front door.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Nothing but deflections and projections. You should be studied. I've never seen as much blame shifting, shame dumping, victim blaming in a single thread by a single person that isn't a politician, lawyer or a psychopath.

Wasting time here. I'm out of this thread.

You have to love the caterwauling and name-calling from someone called out for not keeping track, making accusations which don't have merit, and generally not being involved in the community to begin with.

Are you wasting time here? Yeah, I'd agree with that. Except that it's everyone else's time you're wasting.

[Imageview]

Any discussion of any other site is a red herring. The sad fact is this site continues to shed traffic at an alarming rate; the damage continues to mount. It doesn’t matter if this is the only website on earth less people use it every month. At some point if nothing changes this argument becomes moot. This makes me sad as I enjoyed visiting here.

[chefdude]

so nobody on CAGUNS are reporting errors..just saying and before you say " well just go there then " which is a BS answer, I have too much time vested in this faulty site that took down all of my itrader feed back of over 10 years... please be straight with us, what is really going on with those Gateway Errors

[TrappedinCalifornia]

so nobody on CAGUNS are reporting errors..just saying and before you say " well just go there then " which is a BS answer, I have too much time vested in this faulty site that took down all of my itrader feed back of over 10 years... please be straight with us, what is really going on with those Gateway Errors

Just in case you missed it...

The site didn't 'take down' iTrader or the ratings. We were warned, for years, that any change to the site software was going to have consequences. iTrader only worked with the iteration of vBulletin (the software the site uses) that Kestryll kept, despite the potential problems, so that iTrader would work. The change was forced on the site with the host going out of business and the new host demanding an update to a more recent version of vBulletin. (That information came from a post by Librarian.)

The other problems, including the Gateway Errors, we assume, are a result of having to move historical/legacy data through several iterations of vBulletin updates. No. We didn't get that from Kestryll, though there are other issues, including limitations placed on the moderators' boards, which has negatively impacted their powers. We have been told, by friends of Kestryll, that he's been going through some personal issues and we were informed, by Kestryll, that the remaining fixes are beyond his technical abilities. Some time back, we were told that one of the members and his team were brought in on a voluntary/part-time basis to make fixes; but, we haven't seen any updates in quite awhile. Personally, I assume that Kestryll isn't posting updates due to the persistent and constant complaining regarding things not being instantly fixed; i.e., one of those lose if you do, lose if you don't post things.

The bottom line is that there are many theories out there, some from people who claim a level of technical expertise, as to why this or that problem occurs. The reality is almost no one has insight behind the curtain, meaning that the vast majority of the theories are, in essence, guesses and no matter how logical, they remain just that... guesses. I've stated that it would be nice and is probably time for some form of update, no matter how cursory, from Kestryll; but, I also have my own take on why he's not providing any. We know his last activity is logged as 6/13/25... today. Thus, assuming Kestryll is logging in as Kestryll, he hasn't completely abandoned us.

What most of us have come down to is the idea that one has to simply accept the site for what it is and realize that not only will 'demands' not be addressed, but that there is a cadre which has, for a year or more, been pushing the idea of 'fix it or turn it over.' We also know that a 'fix' turns out to not be as 'simple' as the vast majority of what is posted as potential 'fixes' and that there have been those elements attempting to chivvy Kestryll into turning over control/ownership, with the majority of us not particularly caring for what is being 'offered' by way of new management.

Insofar as the other site, reporting errors may be minimal or nonexistent. However, there are quite a number who remain here who actually tried the other site and don't care for the difference, having primarily returned here. There are others who actively participate over there; but, the sense we get is that the majority of them don't place a priority on the historical knowledge or the 'latitude' in what is allowed vis a vis this site. Ultimately, the choice remains with the individual and 'pushing' any other site as an or THE alternative is not generally well received.

It may not be an 'answer,' but it is, by and large, where we're at.

[sonofeugene]

All this talk is superfluous. The fact is, access to this forum is spotty at best. And Kes continues to remain silent. This site continues to circle the drain, and the water level continues to get lower and lower.

If Kes would just give us weekly updates, we might have some hope. But he doesn’t say anything. It’s like he doesn’t give a poo.

FYI, this is the first time I’ve gotten on here in days.

[sonofeugene]

All this talk is superfluous. The fact is, access to this forum is spotty at best. And Kes continues to remain silent. This site continues to circle the drain, and the water level continues to get lower and lower.

If Kes would just give us weekly updates, we might have some hope. But he doesn’t say anything. It’s like he doesn’t give a poo.

FYI, this is the first time I’ve gotten on here in days. And right now I continue to wait for this post to register with the site. Maybe someday it will happen.