Tweet
Could not log in yesterday at all, FWIW. Still very fragile.
-
-
works only 1/3 of the time and i still cant get to my message center. So hard to believe its just abandoned, but whatever its JUST for marketplace at this point. Caguns, for whatever it is, works hard to keep the site working and the market place there is now growing alot. It will overtake this site at some point since this place has been unusable for like 3 years nowComment
-
I took a look at that 'other' site in the last few days. It appears it's got it's own 'problems' according to the raccoon owner. What problems? It can't be afforded so he's structuring it so as to, I assume, move it toward a pay-to-play site. Maybe not immediately and, perhaps, not entirely; but, his emphasis is on a 'need' for the membership to more actively contribute monetarily. At the moment, he claims that only 0.15% or thereabout actually do and that advertisers are 'few' in California; the inference being that because it takes money to operate such a site, that to fully enjoy the benefits, members should be willing to pay. Otherwise, the 'free' aspects will be decidedly more limited.
Juxtapose that to this site where the owner, long ago, promised to keep this site free and, a couple of years ago, noted he intends to keep that promise. A number have volunteered to help, including financially, with this site. More continually post that he simply needs to spend some money to get things fixed (among other suggestions many disagree with). The vast majority, however, feel as though they shouldn't have to pay-to-play and, similarly, if you look at the thread on the 'other' site, the owner over there has been told the membership shouldn't have to either or that, at the very least, the amounts he's been talking about should be reduced to a more 'agreeable' size. The latter is something that owner has, tentatively, agreed to; but, again, with 'reduced' benefits, including a mailbox limit, which will, inarguably, impact the market place activities of some, many, or most. How much of an impact is unknown.
Over there, it's referred to as 'tiers of membership.' Here, there are 'tiers,' but the differences are slight. Over there, the way that site is 'evolving,' the differences will ultimately be more significant. Such is consistent with one of the gripes the members here have with that owner; e.g., that he has always been about ROI for himself and never made any 'secret' of it. What he has never seemed to grasp is that we don't begrudge him or the owner here a certain ROI in that every business exists and persists to make a profit. Where we disagree is based on the promise the owner here has stuck to over the years. Being a site truly about the 2nd Amendment isn't simply about market places, competition, and training in firearms. It's about much, much more than that. Likewise, the 2nd Amendment or the Constitution as a whole, isn't just for those who can afford it. That includes the benefits. While any society will eventually develop 'tiers' (and we have them here in various fashions), those differences 'naturally' develop and are not 'enforced' as contingencies of membership in the group by the Administration.
His premise over there is a 'need' for what he deems a 'good balance' to retain what he terms a "stable OpEx," where the paid memberships support the free activities. Okay. But, that invites an ever increasing sense of importance and privilege from those who pay. Such is inevitable. We've even seen it here where many of those who are listed as 'contributors' feel they are 'entitled' to benefits the 'peons' aren't. Once again, while there are some, they aren't nearly as overt and, in most cases, derive primarily from the membership rather than being 'gifted' by the site. Put another way, this site is more reflective of our society while, over there, it is more reflective of a different type of society, one not all of us agree with and which is, in many respects, antithetical to what the Founders of this Nation intended.
Remember, I stated that the 2nd Amendment is about more than market places, competition, and training. In fact, all three of those can be and are utilized by TPTB on the 'other' site to generate revenue for themselves and that site. They aren't necessarily an egalitarian offering, no matter the spin which is placed upon them by management. Here... Well... Let's just say that it's more closely associated, or at least seems to be, with the concept of relating to or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. You see, this site isn't JUST about a market place and neither is the 'other' site. The difference? Who 'controls' and who gleans the benefits and to what degree.
This site has NOT been 'abandoned' and it has been USABLE to one degree or another for the "3 years" you cite. What most who are still active here feel is a preference for how this site is administered and the 'society' it represents. As a result, the membership here, by and large contribute what they can, be it monetarily, expertise, clicking on advertising links, or simply posting so as to draw clicks. ALL of those are considered 'contributions' of a kind and no appreciable differentiation is ascribed to the benefits; i.e., all members are treated, by the Administration here, as equal and deserving of equal rights and opportunities. With those come the down side of shared adversities. But, that's the crux of it. Shared rights, opportunities, benefits, and adversities are what not only comprise, but create a community. That's what THIS site offers as opposed to what THAT site is offering.
Will that site, eventually, 'overtake' this site? Perhaps. However, it will only be in certain respects and none of those really end up being crucial components to a sense of 'community.'Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 02-14-2026, 1:43 AM.Comment
-
I was simply trying to say the other site is actively working on keeping it reliable. Trust me, I have seen and gotten into many arguments with people there who hate trump, love democrats- the same dem's that passed laws like taking 3 off the roster if you add 1, meaning you will get to 1 gun allowed at all. I do not understand why they are even on a gun group- but whatever- the site stays up and running and the marketplace has grown into almost a replacement for this one. For a long time people still kept posting here and finally moved because indeed, this site is just mostly un-usable. I can rarely get to the login screen and to this day can't get to my messages at all.
There will be no community here if the site isn't reliable, thats where you are wrong. I think most of the people have just given up. When there was assistance offered for years and nothing really happened, it shows this site was just given up on. We had the greatest marketplace on here, and it was allowed to basically die.
I'm not sure I understand some of your posts, you are saying the other site will be made for money? I dont think people think everything will be free nor is the owner obligated to not make a penny on it- thats fine if it helps pay for servers. This is capitalism at the end of the day, so if they can make an alternative and make money, i mean... ok?
I'm on your side and wish this site didn't die.. They should have just killed all the posts or whatever was needed and started over, this is so much worse and I'd bet if you took a poll that would be what people would say.
Cheers
Comment
-
You'll find some debate, including in threads on that site, as to which site is 'better' in terms of selling. Opinions are mixed and it seems, for some, to be dependent upon the type of merchandise being flocked. You will find, if you care to honestly look, people having posted on both sites that they are working with both or prefer one to the other.
There are any number of people still here and active. Some post every day. Others post more intermittently. Some have moved on for their own reasons. Some have been 'moved on,' so to speak. In fact, at least initially, some of the members joining over there and castigating this site were actually banned from this site for one reason or another.
It's become old and tiresome for people to keep repeating the refrain that 'assistance was offered for years and been refused, indicating the site has been given up and/or abandoned.' First, it's patently untrue. The owner's last activity is listed as yesterday and there are several threads not only indicating what he, and others, are doing, but why they can't or haven't been doing it expeditiously. In fact, just as with your post, it is conveniently ignored that the owner spent considerable time and effort actually working with the engineers for the software the site uses and didn't get the results he wished. It's also conveniently left out that he did reach out and allow someone to help, that someone claiming a 'quick fix' was to be had, only to 'update,' not on this site, but the 'other' site, and not be heard from again. Likewise, there is a member here who is actually helping the owner try to narrow down the log jam.
Maybe the reason you don't understand my posts is that you didn't keep up with or chose to ignore the threads where there was back and forth with the owner of the 'other' site and his continual stumping over his desire for ROI. No one, repeat, no one expects that some money isn't going to be made. The critical difference is the near constant haranguing and tweaking on the 'other' site in terms of how it generates revenue; not to mention the documented 'poaching' that was done vis a vis this site's sponsors. Capitalism is one thing. But claiming to be a complementary site while attempting to undermine this site by siphoning off members/sponsors, and claiming a desire to 'help' as a guise to garner access to proprietary information only available behind the scenes is... well... there are various takes. Remember, the owner of this site has stated he intends to keep membership here FREE and generate revenue by other means. Meanwhile, the 'other' site is creating 'castes' of members based on how much they pony up in fees. While it may not be viewed that way currently, such a 'caste system' is the inevitable outcome.
When it comes to 'killing all the posts and starting over,' that is NOT what the desired outcome is for most members who remain. There is value, both perceived and real, to the knowledge contained in the database. Everyone who wishes that knowledge to be maintained recognizes the possibility that, at some point, an alternative approach may be needed; e.g., partitioning the 'old' into a 'read only' section and offering a 'new' matrix for current and forward contributions being one example which has been talked about. But, again, that's not the preference and we haven't necessarily reached that point, yet.
You see, the site is far from 'dead' and the valued information is still, mostly, accessible. It's just not as readily so as it used to be and that's what is being worked on.
I do love how there are those who speak of 'capitalism,' then want to 'suggest' polls to point ownership in a direction, generally citing their take as the 'inevitable' outcome, while ignoring what the owner has said, as well as many, maybe most of the actual membership who are still overtly active. What is also generally ignored is that only a small percentage of the membership has ever been 'active contributors' and that this site continues to garner new members on a semi-regular basis. In other words, to whatever degree, the 'capitalist model' still seems to be working on this site. It just happens to be a different variant than the overt, 'aggressive,' and self-serving model being employed by the 'other' site.
Bear in mind that the owner of the 'other' site has been patently clear that he has no desire to run/administer a site and, instead, intends to pass on what he has built. While that may be a variant of 'capitalism,' it's also an unknown in terms of who/what will take it over and what the agenda will be. With this site, the agenda has been clear, literally, for decades.
In the end, 'reliability' of a website isn't the sole criterion of its value to a membership or customer or user base. There are some very real paradigmatic differences in terms of how the right to keep and bear arms is viewed, talked about, referenced, etc. For many here, the perception is that far too many 'over there' are more in line with the dissent in Heller, meaning they have a take on the right as more akin to a privilege than a right. Likewise, the 'take' on the right itself is viewed much more myopically over there; thus, 'limiting' the right itself, not only arbitrarily, but hazardously. Suffice to say those are just the tip of the iceberg.Comment
-
The old data is causing the instability, as per kes's last communication. The way to fix the problem most reasonably is to remove the old data. This is a common issue with forum migrations, and why data is not usually kept.
Some people would rather see the site die the death of 1000 cuts than remove the old data. And they argue that anyone who disagrees is no true scotsman. It's all pretty tiresome. My favorite canard at this point is "it must be the guest users!" which is just a misunderstanding of how that number is calculated.Comment
-
I get that you and a number of others simply want to chuck the old and start over. As I said, we're not there yet or, at least, such an eventuality hasn't been accepted as inevitable. Likewise, there are other alternatives, the one you are suggesting simply being a 'quick and simple' approach.
Insofar as the guest users, I'm not one who believes that's the source of the problems. Is it indicative of one of the issues? I'd say it's likely. But, again, it's just one problem. As you say, it could provide a certain level of stabilization, but it won't 'solve' the issue.
The death of a 1000 cuts comes in many forms and one of those forms would be to simply remove the old data. Why? Because it is a treasure trove of knowledge. It's actually one of the main strengths and attractions of the site. In point of fact, much of that information is still out there to be had. It just takes more of an effort, at the moment, to get to it; not to mention more patience and persistence. It also involves workarounds at times. That's the key in that effort, persistence, patience, and workarounds aren't universally appealing.
You see, simply chucking the old data would negate one of major reasons this site has been successful and continues to be in some respects, despite the issues. It's one of the major differences between this and the 'other' site in that the 'other' site is run with an eye toward 'efficiency' more so than knowledge retention so it can be accessed at will. That site relies more on the 'current' levels of knowledge of the 'aggressive' and not so much a 'library' of knowledge. It robs members and readers of the fullness, richness, diversity, and 'history' when it comes to many things. In a nutshell, it caters to 'new is best' and 'old is outdated' thinking. The problem is the old adage... If you forget the past, you're bound to repeat it or, worse, lose it, meaning the lessons learned tend to be lost as well.
As per Kestryll's last post to this thread on 12/28 (Post #199)...
If even the hosting company doesn't know who he needs to speak with and given he's not completely fluent in terms of databases, it creates a bit of a conundrum; i.e., a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Kestryll and the majority of still active members want to preserve the 'old' and, as I indicated, there are a number of options besides simply chucking it all. Corbin Dallas is going through the logs as he can, but neither he nor Kestryll are able to give it their full, undivided attention. As was posted in another thread on 12/17...
Ultimately, going for what some perceive as the 'quick and dirty' solution isn't necessarily the ideal option. Will it or some variant become a necessity? We'll see. It's just that there are still options and, at some point, one will have to be selected. Just bear in mind that it's not your decision, my decision, or any other members' decision to make. ​Comment
-
Reality check: the Majority isn't here. You can't speak for them. What you have in your ear is a desperate group of hangers-on who are willing to spend hours every day checking for uptime to get at that forum lore. The rest of us just want to connect and maybe trade and you're not selecting for a reliable, active user base if your site isn't reliable and active itself.
You know how bad it is? I read this this afternoon. And I've been getting gateway errors ever since then and it's 6:30pm now when I can finally post. I'm speaking for the majority of enthusiasts in California when I say people aren't down to put up with that. Especially day after day.
If you keep the old forums up and break off the marketplace into a light, barebones platform that loads well and attracts active traders for ppt, that's what I'm here for. Cutting out the old fluff is a PLUS to that end; I only need ads to persist when I'm using them to find one other person. Will one of the TWO competing digital empire architects please just build that?Last edited by cgncgn112; 03-04-2026, 6:00 AM.Comment
-
Right back at you... Reality check... You can't and don't necessarily speak for 'the Majority' either. Not to put too fine a point on it, but you've been a member for two years with 50 posts; i.e., what you represent is someone who dabbles in a single aspect of the site, with many of those 50 posts being 'bumps' of a specific product you're attempting to sell. There is a whole lot more to this site than simply that.
Gateway errors? Gee. You don't mean the same types of things we've ALL been putting up with for some time now and, yet, we're still here and actively contributing; not just in terms of trades, but also in terms of contributing to the community as a whole. Trading is simply one aspect of the right to keep and bear arms and it's definitely not representative of the 'all' of that right. On top of that, were you keeping track, there have been recent threads discussing the 'other' site and how it has seen threads discussing how traders use both sites, how one site is 'better' for certain types of trading, etc. and that site is touted as 'available' the way you wish it to be. Yet, there is still debate as to which is 'better,' even with the problems this site is experiencing.
In case you hadn't noticed, your 'suggestion' has been made, a number of times. Again, that's simply ONE aspect of the site and not necessarily the primary one, even if it is, apparently, what YOU seek from the site. Put another way, the KNOWLEDGE base this site presents may be largely 'irrelevant' to what you wish to use the site for, but it's a very important aspect to many others, maybe even the actual majority.
As has been discussed, ad nausem at this point, the site is, in some respects, actually fairly accessible and not just for those who 'spend hours every day checking for uptime to get at that forum lore.' It's not about the site NEVER being available or only randomly being available. While not entirely predictable, there is a certain 'predictability' to the availability. As has also been noted, endlessly, the site isn't necessarily available at any given member's convenience; i.e., you have to WANT to be on and make yourself available at those times when the site is.
I grant it's not the ideal, but it is what it is and we work with it. Is it simply a diehard group, those you deem 'a desperate group of hangers-on?' No. That would be a gross, oversimplification as there are quite a few who are actually active. We know the counters aren't necessarily working correctly when it comes to guests and we also know, from long experience, that many of the members signed in don't necessarily 'actively' post, but there are often over 100 members signed in at any given time during the day; i.e., not an unusual number at all.
The knowledge base you express a certain 'disdain' for is, for many, maybe even most, what they access the site for. It's not simply 'old fluff.' In fact, over time, there has been discussion related to the membership representing a 'community' and a community is more than simply those who want to trade or compete or seek 'training' in that the right to keep and bear arms involves much more than 'guns.' Bear in mind that this site has marketed itself as one which is focused on resistance to infringement on the 2nd Amendment, not one necessarily focused on attempting to sell an handgun; an aspect which represents 36% of your total posts and those just in the last 'month.' (Wait. You've bumped that post nearly everyday for around three weeks and you 'can't get on?' Uh...???)
You might want to give 'the community' a try in terms of your actual participation to develop a more realistic sense for what it represents. That way, you might have a better perception of what 'the majority of gun owners in California' will or won't be up to dealing with when it comes to the myriad things which this site provides.Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 03-03-2026, 2:44 AM.Comment
-
I kinda want to buy the place and hire people to get it running reliably. I don’t know if I’d lose my ars or could make a profit from it but I’d really like to see calguns be great again.
MCGA!Comment
-
Having been around forums since the BBS (bulletin board systems) and NNTP (network news transfer protocol) days in the 90's, and having moderated and administrated a number of forums over the decades, Calguns is the first forum I've been around that has seemingly regularly scheduled unannounced outages going on for months if not years.
Even the free forums (free to start and run) on Proboards I ran were stable as could be and Proboards made announcements when they were doing system updates or maintenance well in advance and kept, IME, to their schedules.
Anyone here with a domain of their own (I've had one since 1997) likely has forum software in their features suite so can try it for themselves and see what the problems can be.
IME, vBulletin has been a rock steady software package that has run forums all over the planet for decades. I remember one I moderated wihere the site owner went AWOL literally for years and the only time the forum went down was when he didn't pay the hosting fee. It was running vB 3.8.xxxx just like CG was before the 'upgrade'. Solid. At the peak we were seeing 1-1.2 million unique visits a month and had the usual attacks that forums deal with. We also had a political forum like CG does with its problems.
Anyway, it's not rocket science.
My offer still stands, give me one day of random successful access and it will result in a life membership. For and old guy who lives on 900 bucks a month SS, that's not a small matter. Keeping the site running for a day should be a small matter. Still, offer's there.Comment
-
Yeah, how dare people expect to use a website... bro, I just want to find a ppt on a site where ppts find each other. I am proud to keep my posts focused. Seeking same.Comment
-
He thinks he is right no matter what evidence is presented, and continues to insist that his path is both a majority opinion and the only objectively correct one. Engaging with him is pointless.
Frankly at this point he might be right, who knows. The damage is done.Comment
There are currently 6061 users online. 79 members and 5982 guests.
Most users ever online was 239,041 at 10:39 PM on 02-14-2026.
Comment