A mood swing, with silly consequences.

[jeremiah12]

I am new to the world of shooting but have made great progress in a short period of time. if i didnt have perseverance, the ability to not take things personally, and the ability to function in a belligerent atmosphere, i would have left calguns after 3 weeks with the belief that gun owners had brought gun control upon themselves.

Some have.

In a few threads I have pointed out the other side of the story and have been flamed because it destroyed the political image being presented.

BTW, I left that thread because it was getting bad, but then went back a few days later when I saw your post. Thank you for your apology. I owe you one also, I was letting my emotions run away and I was baiting you. that is why I left after my post to you in that thread, it was going downhill and I did not need the ugliness in my brain. Most people would label me more towards the conservative end politically, but I guess I am still old school in that I can agree to disagree and still get along and still like people for reasons other than political beliefs.

You bring up a very good point, how are we, as gun supporters, supposed to grow our community, if we cannot be civil enough to make newcomers feel comfortable?

The teacher in the next room to me has never touched a gun in her life. She is 29 and married. Both her husband and her have been against guns for their entire lives and both grew up in southern CA. They now live in central CA and waterfowl hunting is common. She teaches physics and has had several students ask her about the physics of guns. She was asking my wife some questions as she also teaches chemistry and physics. My wife said talk to me. She had no idea I went shooting.

We talked and she asked me to take her out to the range. She commented that I seemed to be such a normal person and she would have never guessed I owned and shot guns. I blew away her stereotype. I then told her about the teachers that shoot also at the range I go to. We can make a range date. Just before break she told me she thinks this is so cool, the thought of shooting. Her husband still hates guns. She has decided though after shooting next month, she is sure she will want to buy her first handgun just because it will empower her for her own self-defense. She has two young daughters and realized that being 4 ft 11 in and 95 pounds, when she home alone with her daughters, the gun equalizes the field if the bad guys decide to show up.

She would definitely be turned off by the OT and is not interested in the legal issues at this time. This place would just reinforce her stereotype view of the average gun owner.

Just for complete disclosure, I grew up with a dad that physically abused my mom and us kids. She divorced him even though all the family on both sides said it was wrong. She remarried, the new husband only abused the kids.

So I grew up with men bullying those weaker than them. I do not put up with such men in real life. On the net, with the ability to hide behind a screen, too many men revert to this behavior IMVHO.

[Off the Roster]

@Jeremiah12

I take the internet bullying here as i take bullying IRL, if you step up to the bully they generally cave. i am not looking to make people cave, that would be bullying unto itself, but, do i want to make people voice the reasoning behind their perspectives. in my tiny brain perspectives are backed by conviction and those "speaking out" without conviction have not bothered to think.

i learn all the time, perhaps i am wrong to apply this characteristic to others. being presented with new ideas, or even the same idea in a new way can indeed change a perspective of mine 180. changing a perspective can have a domino effect but it in no way diminishes the remainder of my unrelated beliefs in any way. do i disagree with the christian view on homosexuality and abortion - yup. do i hate christians - nope. this applies to any religion in the world as well.

you may have baited me, and applied the double standard of calguns BUT at least you provided reason - conviction - behind your words. your convictions had value in my eyes. as you felt the need to apologize, it is accepted, de nada. atm i obviously have too much free time at my disposal and i cannot afford to get sucked into the calguns pissing contest of a vocabulary as it may resurface in the real world at a most inopportune time. your conviction realigned me.

i try to have an open mind and see all sides to information that is presented. i learned long ago that several things in life prohibited this for me, the 2 big ones being political affiliation and religion. both those entities require too much of a blind eye for true independent thought so my lack of association allows me to hear people in an unbiased way and think for myself - a fact which seems to be completely incompatible with a large portion of society.

Before that brouhaha of a thread got locked, i did feel some progress that made everything worthwhile. when the yahoo article reflected my position it definitely gave at least one person cause for thought. this same individual then posed questions, seemingly bewildered, as though there were suddenly a concept that had never occurred to him to exist. another gentleman and i had started down the trail of role of religion in politics and its affect much to the chagrin to 2A. two very tiny nuggets in a sea of slop, but that is what panning for gold is all about....

[movie zombie]

......... On the net, with the ability to hide behind a screen, too many men revert to this behavior IMVHO.

I agree: a bully is a bully whether it is IRL or at the keyboard.

[stilly]

Yes, OT is 'interesting'........just for amusement, check out the last posting I put on the 'rant' thread......I'd bet it will be deleted 'poof' when Mr K or one of the mods wakes up and reads it.......just like the one in which I 'dissected' the propaganda scam one of the men was running..........yes, I know, its a silly pastime. 'pressing their buttons'........... : )

edited....hmmm.....this might not be such a good idea.......I'd feel rather foolish if I woke up and found a burning cross in my front yard.... : )

cheers

Carla

BAH!

Come on now. SERIOUSLY? Like ANYONE from OT has the attention span to even get to locating a cross to burn... They would rather be high or hate on cops or military. You have nothing to worry about.

BTW, that sucks that some asshats shot up the range like that. Perhaps you should get thicker/harder steel shields for that portion? There was a place over past Riverside called the Rock Pile and the guy that ran it told us all that the range was ours and we should treat it as our own. So, We took care of it usually, but there are always asshats out there that don't give a **** about anything. Those few are the ones that ruin it for the rest.

I would not mind helping at the range either but it is a 400 mile trip one way for me and well, not good for someone that is unemployed to make a drive like that just to clean up... :\


Move your range further south and maybe we can make it happen.

Anyways...

As for bullying folks here. Well, I will be honest, my attention span was too short to read through half of Jeremiah's posts but I have been viewed as a jerk (and prolly a bully too) quite often it seems. When Bumslie met me for the first time, he thought that I was going to be some crotchety old man that hated everything and everyone. He seemed shocked that I was (hopefully) the opposite in real life. When I met CGT80 and he invited me to his house to check out some lead, he made the comment later in the forum that he met me and I seem like a decent guy in real life...

SO, I think that here on the interwebs, my joking around in just about EVERY other post does not come off as joking around to others, but rather me just being mean or a jerk... Yes I am wildly sarcastic face to face and yes, I DO hate a lot of things, but here in the forums I NEVER knew that I just looked like a prick instead of the joking funny guy that I THOUGHT I looked like... So now I tend to put a bit more and a few more as well as my :flickcig: and hopefully people do not think that I am as big a prick as others might have before.

SO, just to recap folks, it could be possible that due to lack of sarcasm tags, the other posters MIGHT sometimes be joking, but because of where we are in life in our mentalities or emotional places, we might not see that and jump to assuming the worst...

And you are all jerks for doing that.

[Lil Stinkpot]

I've also noticed that in OT there is a bit of a dogpile and bandwagon thing going on. If someone makes a slip, everyone seems almost obligated to put in their $.02, whether or not it's already been said by someone else. The group carp-on-him attitude is off putting. I can also see that it's not going to change, so I might as well not fight it. Oh, no, I'm not going to just take it, but I'll use my own quiet ways to try not to get carped on. Much.

Stilly, I agree. Many times it seems like they might possibly be half joking, but then ..... If *I* were to try to make a funny and it falls flat, I at least try to make it right as soon as I can. I don't let it blow up and snowball. So maybe some are half sarcastic and half trolling. Just a little. Maybe.


BTW, the brazing is coming along nicely. Carla does a good job with a torch, though might be a little "muzzle happy" with the lit flame? I'm still checking my eyebrows; they feel a little crunchy. (joking!) I'll post pics of the finished equipment. It still needs grinding and final cleanup, and the (hopefully) aluminum target carrier needs some heliarc welding next.

FWIW: The backstop does have armor plate behind the targets. It's the target carrier and cable turnaround that got hit; those are made of mystery metal, and aren't very strong. It also makes them very hard to fix.

[stilly]

I think pretty much everyone who has been in and gotten out of the OT forum will agree, that is the Lord of the Flies, the Thunderdome forum on Calguns.

Of course, the posters in it would not understand that, but who cares if they do or do not...

[jeremiah12]

I think pretty much everyone who has been in and gotten out of the OT forum will agree, that is the Lord of the Flies, the Thunderdome forum on Calguns.

Of course, the posters in it would not understand that, but who cares if they do or do not...

I have been reevaluating my participation in OT recently. The above describes it very well. As I recently told another, it can cause me to go to the dark places in my mind that I would rather not visit. So, I really need need to follow the Golden Rule my mom taught me so many years ago. If I cannot say something nice, then do not say anything at all. It can be hard when I come across a bullying situation or a know it all blow hard because IRL I do intervene in these situations.

Unfortunately, there are some who just like arguing and know what is right for everybody.

[movie zombie]

lord of the flies: yes! an appropriate description of OT!!!!!!!!!

[Asphodel]

I have been reevaluating my participation in OT recently. The above describes it very well. As I recently told another, it can cause me to go to the dark places in my mind that I would rather not visit. So, I really need need to follow the Golden Rule my mom taught me so many years ago. If I cannot say something nice, then do not say anything at all. It can be hard when I come across a bullying situation or a know it all blow hard because IRL I do intervene in these situations.

Unfortunately, there are some who just like arguing and know what is right for everybody.

Hi, jerimiah,

Your comment about the 'dark places' in men's minds (and, yes, true enough, women can have 'dark places', as well) brought to mind one of the earliest experiences I can remember.........a rather graphic example of the so-called 'Jekyll/Hyde' characteristic inherent in many, if not all, men.

It is just a trivial incident, to be sure, but it had quite an affect on me, at the time........I was then a littly, 'toddler' stage, more or less, just old enough to be the real nuisance to watch which those can be (as in, 'no, dear, don't try to pick that up, its a rattlesnake')

On this particular morning, my mother needed to go into town for some reason, so Dear Father had to mind me.......and he didn't take kindly to having to be a child minder.

One of his pet projects, at the time, was re-grading some of the area around the house, to improve our road, and level out a bit more garden space.

He had a little D2 cat, and was quite skilled with using it, but, apparently, never got around to doing any maintenence on it. The electric starter for its pony (starting) engine didn't work, for whatever reason, so he would wind it with the starting-rope.

(for a visual perspective, here's a you-tube video of the process......note that this video is of a unit which is in a good state of maintenence, and starts as it should)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Aej3ADUkE

So......Dear Father decided that he could mind me, and get some re-grading done, at the same time, by perching me on the tool-box of the cat, and putting a couple turns of light line around me so I couldn't fall off.

I got to watch as he tried to start the pony engine.........and tried, and tried some more.....and, as I watched, became a totally different person, red-faced, and loudly shouting words I'd never heard (which, of course, I later learned were rather exceedingly foul obscenities)

After a moment, he 'became himself' again, turned to me, and quite sheepishly apologised for his language.

I watched as the tinkered with the engine a bit, then tried to start it, winding the starting-rope and pulling, again and again.......and the engine did little 'pop' sounds from time to time, but didn't run.

Once again, back into 'Hyde mode', face turning red, and more shouted words I didn't understand, and once again, a sheepish apology a few minutes later.

Finally, after some more tinkering, the pony engine actually started and ran, probably on the 100th pull on the starting-rope (or thereabouts, it seemed like forever, at the time), with Dear Father red-faced and perspiring heavily, muttering various and sundry terms unknown to me........and, after a few more moments, very humbly apologising to me again, for his language......I was, of course, utterly mystified.

A few minutes more, he had the main engine running on Diesel, and I got to see Dear Father in a really good 'empowerment' mood, and was both mystified and somehow quite impressed as he re-shaped a hillside into the smooth, level area he had envisioned.

I was amazed and impressed with the work he had done, seeing all those yards of dirt moved as he had envisioned........but, oh, my, getting to see the dramatic 'Jekyll/Hyde' personality change as he cursed that machine is a memory still vivid to this day.

What has this memory to to with calguns OT, all these years later?........well, just a thought.......do discussions here bring out the same 'elements of character' in some men, as are brought out by an ill-maintained machine which won't start? (which brings up the obvious question.......has an ill-maintained mind a dramatic similarity to an ill-maintained machine, sometimes?)

(oh, and there is a 'punch line'...........you should have seen my mother's face when she got back from town, and Dear Father explained to her how he had me lashed down on the cat in such a way that I couldn't possibly fall off and be hurt.......so it was alright, he was taking care to be sure I would be safe, and he could get some work done whilst minding me. My mother was 'not amused'......to 'put it mildly'.)

cheers

Carla

[Off the Roster]

Unfortunately, there are some who just like arguing and know what is right for everybody.

the boobies thread was a classic example of this sentiment. i think these guys are just so happy that they can have a one-sided (theirs) "conversation" that they actively work to ignore anything that should provide pause for thought.

jekyll & hyde for inanimate objects lol gotta laugh, but for human interaction - not so much.

[jeremiah12]

Hi, jerimiah,

Your comment about the 'dark places' in men's minds (and, yes, true enough, women can have 'dark places', as well) brought to mind one of the earliest experiences I can remember.........a rather graphic example of the so-called 'Jekyll/Hyde' characteristic inherent in many, if not all, men.

The dark places in my mind were given to me by my very violent dad and even more violent step-dad. It took many a few years of therapy and many years of self-reflection to dig myself out of that place and get my life in order. If I am not careful, I can find myself slipping back there. I do not like that person I become when I go there.

I also know what you mean about the normal "Jekyll/Hyde" characteristic in men. Most do not want to admit it. I experience it also. I have reached the age where I can now admit I might be wrong. My mother, who was an RN said men tended to mellow with age and women tended to become more assertive with age, at least that was her experience.

It is just a trivial incident, to be sure, but it had quite an affect on me, at the time........I was then a littly, 'toddler' stage, more or less, just old enough to be the real nuisance to watch which those can be (as in, 'no, dear, don't try to pick that up, its a rattlesnake')

I busted a gut reading your incident. I bet you had a blast riding on that D2 Cat. You probably were safe enough. Of course, if you were hurt your dad would not have survived.

Soon after my son was born, I would take him with me nearly everywhere. My wife was breastfeeding him and he was feeding every 2 to 3 hours and she was not getting much sleep. When I went somewhere, I would take him with me because he would sleep longer in the car or while moving in a shopping cart. I was remodeling our house, so I spent a lot of time at Home Depot. My mother-in-Law found out and called CPS because she was sure I was abusing him because only mothers know how to take care of babies and fathers should never be alone with them or have anything to do with them. The funny part, I was the oldest of 5, and most of that time my mother was a single working mom so I had to take care of my younger siblings. I changed diapers and did it all. My wife had no idea what to do with this blob that only ate, pooped, and cried. She was sure she was going to kill him. CPS came over and realized that my MIL was full of it.

I was doing research for my Ph.D in the summer and writing my dissertation in the winter. My wife was a teacher then. So one of us was at home with him. As much as I wanted to set him in front of the TV so I could write I also knew this part of his life would be over quickly, so I spent the time with him and wrote in the evening after he went to bed. Today he is a sophomore in college and it only seemed like yesterday he was crawling on the floor.

What has this memory to to with calguns OT, all these years later?........well, just a thought.......do discussions here bring out the same 'elements of character' in some men, as are brought out by an ill-maintained machine which won't start? (which brings up the obvious question.......has an ill-maintained mind a dramatic similarity to an ill-maintained machine, sometimes?)

I agree, an ill-maintained mind is dramatically similar to an ill-maintained machine. Unfortunately, one can rebuild the machine and get it into working order again. The mind cannot be rebuilt so easily. The owner of the mind has to recognize his or her mind has been ill-maintained and something needs to be done about it. Testosterone poisoning makes it harder for men to accept that. Study after study has shown men, as a group, resist admitting they are wrong.

My second step-father, and the first time my mother selected a man who was not abusive, was the only person who ever acted like a father in my life. He was an auto mechanic and an auto body repair person and painter. He had dropped out of high school because of problems with the law and was given a choice to go to jail or join the army and go to Viet Nam when he was 17. He chose the second. He straightened his life out and took care of his family though he was not polished by any means. He taught me though to admit when I was wrong, to own up to it and apologize and make it right as best as I can. He taught me to never argue with someone who knows he is right because you will never convince that person he is wrong, even if you have the proof in front of him. You will just waste your time and get upset at the same time. Just walk away. Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut to keep a good friend than to insist you are right and loose a good friend. You will never find anyone that will agree with you 100%. Finally, it is okay to change your mind, it means you have learned.

[Off the Roster]

He taught me to never argue with someone who knows he is right because you will never convince that person he is wrong, even if you have the proof in front of him. You will just waste your time and get upset at the same time.

aka trying to teach a pig to knit.

[jeremiah12]

the boobies thread was a classic example of this sentiment. i think these guys are just so happy that they can have a one-sided (theirs) "conversation" that they actively work to ignore anything that should provide pause for thought.

jekyll & hyde for inanimate objects lol gotta laugh, but for human interaction - not so much.

Quite agreed. Either they grew up living a very sheltered life or they forgot what they experienced when they grew up. I was born in the early 1960's and raised in a conservative neighborhood. By the time I was 6 or so, all of us neighbor kids had seen each other's parts by playing doctor or watching each other pee. We were so busy playing we did not run into the house to use the bathroom, we went in the empty lot or behind a bush in someone's backyard. Because the streets were safe, parents were not outside watching us.

My mother grew up on a farm. She learned all about the birds and the bees by watching the farm animals. That was how most American kids learned about sex generations ago.

Chickshooter, I loved your story about your first "boyfriend" and after his using the bathroom your comment that this will not work out. When I decided to get my teaching credential, I substitute taught in elementary schools because it was much easier than high schools. I earned a reputation for dealing with Kindergarten and 1st grade well and soon was just working in those grades. This is par for the course with this age group. I would laugh it off. Other subs would get upset and start yelling.

Some of the men in OT are the same ones that will be extremely shocked when they learn their daughters leave the house in the outfit approved by dad but soon after change into the outfit they want to wear and that they know is not "dad-approved". I love these moments of truth.