Second form of address & exemption question

[clrems77]

Sigh ... Incorrect. Handguns need proof of residency BUT a CA ID/DL does not qualify, so another document is needed. For a long gun, the CA ID/DL is acceptable. There is NO second proof of residency.

Thanks Kemasa, Its what I meant, but i should have worded it better.


No, the HSC is still valid for handgun purchases until it expires. It does not work for long guns though.

Perfect, thanks!

[kilrain]

Biggest thing: You need to ensure that they have a valid CA Peace Officer's ID. If they don't have one or can't prove it, they are not exempt.

Not to derail the thread on this specific side point but how do you or your business determine the validity of a California peace officer identification? There is no statewide standard format for peace officer identification cards. Providing a person has a card that appears to be a peace officer identification card, do you call the employing agency and verify that the person works there and their job title? Or is there specific wording on the card that you(or DOJ) deems acceptable? Or do you take them at face value?

I'm curious because I've ran into certain businesses that essentially told me my valid California peace officer identification card is worthless/meaningless to them and they wouldn't accept it. Thanks for any information.

[EBR Works]

CA PC 26845 is the section which requires proof of residency and it is limited only to handguns.

Thanks!

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

In regards to peace officer ID's, I have always taken them at face value. Then again, I know most of them already. I would think for something like a roster exemption, that the DOJ would verify peace officer status during the background check. You would have to be pretty bold to impersonate a peace officer when buying a gun...

[kilrain]

In regards to peace officer ID's, I have always taken them at face value. Then again, I know most of them already. I would think for something like a roster exemption, that the DOJ would verify peace officer status during the background check. You would have to be pretty bold to impersonate a peace officer when buying a gun...

Thank you for the reply.

[ugimports]

Not to derail the thread on this specific side point but how do you or your business determine the validity of a California peace officer identification? There is no statewide standard format for peace officer identification cards. Providing a person has a card that appears to be a peace officer identification card, do you call the employing agency and verify that the person works there and their job title? Or is there specific wording on the card that you(or DOJ) deems acceptable? Or do you take them at face value?

I'm curious because I've ran into certain businesses that essentially told me my valid California peace officer identification card is worthless/meaningless to them and they wouldn't accept it. Thanks for any information.

Take them at face value. However, do all LEOs also have an actual shield/badge that can be shown as well?

I don't know many people that know about "off roster" that would risk committing a crime (impersonating an officer, probably also some level of fraud as well) just to get one.

[kilrain]

Take them at face value. However, do all LEOs also have an actual shield/badge that can be shown as well?

I don't know many people that know about "off roster" that would risk committing a crime (impersonating an officer, probably also some level of fraud as well) just to get one.

Thank you for the reply.

To my knowledge, not all LEOs carry an actual wallet badge(I do) or other type badge. For instance, at my agency(a Sheriff's department) you are issued a badge but must purchase a wallet badge at your own expense. That being said, the actual metal badge doesn't mean much to cops if they are asking for your agency identification, they want the actual identification card. I would think a California firearms dealer would want the same....?

Interestingly enough, the last time wasn't for an off roster type purchase, it was a handgun PPT. The dealer wouldn't accept it in place of the HSC/FSC.

[ugimports]

Thank you for the reply.

To my knowledge, not all LEOs carry an actual wallet badge(I do) or other type badge. For instance, at my agency(a Sheriff's department) you are issued a badge but must purchase a wallet badge at your own expense. That being said, the actual metal badge doesn't mean much to cops if they are asking for your agency identification, they want the actual identification card. I would think a California firearms dealer would want the same....?

Yeah we basically copy the ID card.

Interestingly enough, the last time wasn't for an off roster type purchase, it was a handgun PPT. The dealer wouldn't accept it in place of the HSC/FSC.

interesting..all the FFL has to do is make a copy to satisfy the regs.. if DOJ during audit identifies the documents as false they know who to bust ..

I don't know why the FFL was sweating it..

[Condorguns]

I also just take a copy of the LE ID. The badge means nothing to me way too many people have fake badges.

[kilrain]

Yeah we basically copy the ID card.

I also just take a copy of the LE ID. The badge means nothing to me way too many people have fake badges.

This is how it's always worked for me every other time.

interesting..all the FFL has to do is make a copy to satisfy the regs.. if DOJ during audit identifies the documents as false they know who to bust ..

I don't know why the FFL was sweating it..

That's what I figured too.

[Tyke8319]

All peace officer ID cards should indicate "Sworn" or Non-Sworn" someplace in the ID card.

[kilrain]

All peace officer ID cards should indicate "Sworn" or Non-Sworn" someplace in the ID card.

? Interesting. Where did you get that information because I assure you mine does not have the word "sworn" anywhere on it and it never has(I just recently got a new identification card, this is the fifth different iteration I've had over the years). It does have my title, Deputy Sheriff, which is specifically listed as a peace officer in 830.1(a) PC.

Is that in a DOJ regulation or did someone from the DOJ tell you that or is it perhaps a store policy? It's definitely not in the Penal Code. Thanks for any information you can provide, perhaps the dealer I went to wanted to a see that or some other "magic" word.....?

[ugimports]

I've had civilians with PD ID on them so as part of vetting I ask if they are sworn officers. That civvie didn't present that for any exemption - I saw it when they went through their wallet and asked if they were as it would have exempted them from the HSC they were about to take. That's when I found out they were a civilian working in the IT Dept for that agency. Otherwise it looked very close to an officer ID without any sort of title on it of course.

[kilrain]

I've had civilians with PD ID on them so as part of vetting I ask if they are sworn officers. That civvie didn't present that for any exemption - I saw it when they went through their wallet and asked if they were as it would have exempted them from the HSC they were about to take. That's when I found out they were a civilian working in the IT Dept for that agency. Otherwise it looked very close to an officer ID without any sort of title on it of course.

Seems like a fine idea to ask for clarification if in doubt, although the word "sworn" is probably not the best term to use even though it is common vernacular. The word "sworn" doesn't appear once in Penal Code sections 830 - 832.17 which define who are peace officers in California. If handed an identification card from a law enforcement agency, asking specifically if they are a peace officer would be more direct and accurate question.

Also regarding "sworn", in California ALL public employees generally(I'm sure there are exceptions) swear/sign an oath of office as part of their employment. It's addressed in the California Constitution and the Government Code if memory serves me correctly.

[ugimports]

I was using sworn in the context of the thread. I think when I've asked I'm asking if they are an actual LEO with arresting authority vs. an administrative worker in the office. So far that has been good enough. I've asked the same of Feds and homeland guys as well. Generally speaking I ask if their LEO ID allows them to carry on and off duty and concealed. If the answer is Yes, I expect that they are exempt. I have assumed those benefits are only given to peace officers as it pertains to the laws in question.