FFL training?

[Bill_in_SD]

First, thanks to all who post here their experiences related to FFL work.

I have been up and down this forum and have been reading a lot of references related to being an FFL. There is a lot of info everywhere, but I was wondering:

Is there a class or course that covers FFL 'basics' for California?

I understand if some folks do not want to share their 'secret sauce' to potential competitors.

As a side note, if anyone in San Diego is bored and wants to 'show me the ropes' I am of course inclined to buy them lunch just to hear about what works / what doesn't. :-) I was looking for a dealer network or some sort of group that meets occasionally, do those exist?

Thanks again

Bill_in_SD

[acespawnshop]

I don't know of any FFL training courses out there. However you can feel free to PM me if you have direct questions and I will try to help you out the best I can.

[ugimports]

Another resource (not CA specific) fflsonly.com -- most federal Q&A can happen there..

basically, follow the law is the secret sauce. Feel free to post here in the FFL forums as well. Most folks here are helpful.

[acespawnshop]

Yeah, ask away on here, maybe if you have a series of questions you can post it in this thread and we can help you get started.

[ugimports]

I didn't realize he didn't have his FFL yet vs being a newb FFL.

[Condorguns]

+1 for posting here. Also check this thread often. The basics of being a FFL are fairly easy to learn where this thread helps the most is with the ever changing DOJ policies and procedures. We share this info freely here and help each other navigate the problem areas.

[MontClaire]

Just google it. There are plenty of courses, books and all kinds of information not pertaining to CA specifically.

[ugimports]

Bill_in_SD

Maybe you can clarify if you have your license or not. If not, did you already do the research of where you planned on conducting business (home, office, storefront)? That always seems to be the first step folks need to get past (local licensing, zoning, etc..). It won't help from a practical standpoint to get FFL knowledge/training if you don't have a place to conduct business.

[acespawnshop]

Since you do not have your FFL yet the first steps would be to check with your local city, or county to see if they will issue you a business license that is "valid retail sales firearms" Make sure your zoning is allowed for retail sales. Then once you've done that you can apply for your FFL through ATF. Fill out the application and your fingerprint cards. While you are waiting to hear back from ATF apply for your CA Certificate of Eligibility. You will need this to get your CFD number from DOJ. Also start looking for who does the CA HSC Instructor course near you. You will need to be an HSC instructor if you wish to sell handguns, and once 1-1-15 your HSC Instructor card will grandfather you in for the safety demo's on Long guns too. You will need to go the the BOE and get your sellers permit, that takes a couple hours at your local BOE office. Once you've applied for your FFL ATF will contact you to set up an appointment at your business for an initial inspection and go over questions you have for ATF. My local city would not issue my business license that says "valid retail sales firearms" until I got my FFL. When my ATF inspector was here the first time he wanted to see our Business license that said "valid retail sales firearms" and I told him West Covina wont give it to me until I got my FFL and he was ok with that. When you get your business license and FFL then you can send all the paperwork into DOJ to get your CFD number and get set up on the DROS system.

As far as procedures go we utilize a checklist that makes sure we get all information that is required for the gun transfer. We have our checklist broken down for whatever type of transfer we are doing (interstate transfer, handgun sale, long gun sale, PPT, police officer, pawn redemption, and consignment sale) DOJ published what forms of proof of residency meets their requirements on their website. ATF has stated on the 4473 what secondary form of ID is acceptable for ATF. Yes, sometimes ATF will require something different than DOJ. Example: ID doesn't have current address, where DOJ says a utility bill is acceptable the ATF will want something government issued. I have had to have customers come back because their ID doesn't show their current physical address and the bring their Edison bill. Where that works for DOJ I have had to send them back to get something that satisfies ATF.

We also utilize a customer agreement page that simply covers us from any customer saying we didn't tell them everything. Basically states how our fees are broken down and we didn't misrepresent the DOJ fees. Also we put something in there about changing the features of firearms may create an assault weapon as defined by CA law.

DOJ requires some signage to be visible in your store. You can go to RK Enterprises and purchase the DOJ package from them. ATF wants the Youth Handgun Safety Act sign up and you can get that from your agent when they come out for your inspection.

You can buy DOJ approved gunlocks online at gunaccessorysupply.com I found that when you buy them in bulk you can get them for around $2 per lock. When they have them in stock. I purchased a lot so I got the discounted price and I don't have to restock for a long time.

You'll need to get the magnetic ID strip reader too. You can get those online and set them up with your computer, although in my opinion they don't work well once ID's get older, so you would need to get a good copier to make copies of ID's if the mag reader doesn't work. A good 3 in 1 printer might be a good option for you so you can copy IDs, Fax FFLs and print DROS paperwork.

Get a decent computer that runs well online because I have found that on busy days when there are a lot of DROS being submitted the DES works slower so don't compound your problems by having a computer that's old and doesn't have enough RAM.

You will need ink pads for your thumbprints. You can buy them in bulk on Ebay or you can probably pick up a single one at an office supply store.

Other than that its not that tough to learn how to do firearm transfers. You've already taken the right steps by reaching out to CG for answers. I would print out the rifle shotgun and handgun flowcharts to keep them handy when you have a question about so called A-salt weapons. I printed mine out and I put them inside my 3 ring binder we use to collect FFLs for our out of state transfers. That way my guys always have them to reference.

Get a small plastic file box you can use to keep all the paperwork you'll need to do a gun transfer so its all handy when you have a customer. (4473's, handgun demo forms, checklists, customer agreements.....)

You can order your 4473's in bulk from ATF just tell them how many you need. I order a few thousand at a time.

HSC cards can be ordered from DOJ, but I hear that after 1-1-15 you will be printing them out online. And DOJ will reimburse you for your unused HSC cards after 1-1-15.

[kemasa]

I have wondered about selling a service to educate FFLs, including new FFLs, but from what I have seen most would not pay and many would not listen.

The main problem in starting out is finding out all of the laws, state, federal, sales tax, etc.

One main suggestion is never assume that a customer knows what they are talking about when it comes to the law. Always check on what they are saying, which is often bogus.

[Tyke8319]

MUCH of what you will do in the course of your business is through trail and error. I retrospect, I certainly would have paid for a course in "The California Firearms Business" considering all the pitfalls I've encountered throughout the 40+ years I've been involved in it. And, I'm still learning! It's an evolutionary process; always changing and seldom static for very long.

[kemasa]

Yes, but I suspect you would only pay in retrospect, not at the time :-).

And you make an important point, it is constant learning.

[Tyke8319]

Point taken..,

[Bill_in_SD]

As usual, Calguns is the place to go. As you can see I have been lurking since 2006 and recently the idea of doing FFL work came up.

Thank you for all the great responses, I hope to some day contribute as well.

Bill_in_SD

[acespawnshop]

I have wondered about selling a service to educate FFLs, including new FFLs, but from what I have seen most would not pay and many would not listen.

I would suspect most FFL's wouldn't buy a service, however I have helped a fellow pawn shop who recently got back into guns after 15 years of not doing them and whenever they call and I see their caller ID I answer the phone "FFL Help Hotline"