DES + AFS question

[NiteQwill]

My original question is in regards to this thread.

scoutpup99 brought up this issue:

Are you sure your dealer actually showed the guns as delivered in the dros software? There was a notice on the homepage for the new DES(DROS) system that says to make sure you deliver the gun via the DES website. I don't believe that the info is sent to AFS until the gun is actually delivered in the DES software. Look at your copies and see if it shows a delivered date in the upper right hand corner. It should also show the name of the person who delivered the firearm to you.

https://des.doj.ca.gov

Question is, to other FFL's, will not marking "delivered" prevent the guns from going into AFS? My current issue right now is IA is requiring me to list other guns on my CCW since my original listed guns don't come up registered (either by name or serial number).

[kemasa]

The FFL is required to give you a copy of the DROS form at pickup. It should be marked that it is delivered.

Since the system changed in 2014, my bet would be something wrong with the system since it is unlikely that every transfer was not marked as delivered, unless your FFL has an issue and is not marking it delivered, which is a violation of the law.

[NiteQwill]

The FFL is required to give you a copy of the DROS form at pickup. It should be marked that it is delivered.

Since the system changed in 2014, my bet would be something wrong with the system since it is unlikely that every transfer was not marked as delivered, unless your FFL has an issue and is not marking it delivered, which is a violation of the law.

Thanks. I purchased 4 firearns from this FFL in 2014, none show up in AFS. I do have the dros paperwork but, if my memory serves me right (I don't have it in front of me at the moment), it was the copy they gave me when I initially bought the firearms (not when I picked it up).

When I emailed my FFL, they sent me a screenshot ofDES, it shows "approved." These firearms were purchased from. January thru March.

Posted using Tapatalk.

[kemasa]

The "approved" does not mean much. That screen should also show the delivered date. If it does not include that, ask them for it. They should also be able to print out the DROS, which would show that it is delivered.

[NiteQwill]

The "approved" does not mean much. That screen should also show the delivered date. If it does not include that, ask them for it. They should also be able to print out the DROS, which would show that it is delivered.

This is exactly what it shows from my email regarding DES:



I'm guessing the FFL missed it? How should I solve this? These firearms were bought by me 30+ days (and months) ago.

I realize now that I may not be the only customer with this issue since this is a fairly busy & well-known FFL. To miss one of my transactions may be a simply mistake, but to miss 4 or 5!? Now, that's saying something... The only reason this came up is because of an AFS check.

Worst case scenario: I can imagine a LEO doing an e-check and having to confiscate mine/other customer's firearms.

[kemasa]

Yeah, they messed up.

I suspect that they are not marking any as delivered, which could end up being a big problem for them, so don't name them here.

I would talk to them and tell them to read CA PC 28255, as well as the notices the CA DOJ has sent out, such as 2014-BOF-01 Information Bulletin.

The CA DOJ had a noticed up for quite some time on the login screen saying that the FFLs had to mark it as delivered and that they were going after the violators.

I am not sure of how you could correct it. The voluntary registration might work, but the FFL should pay the $19/firearm since it is not your fault.

I am not sure of how the CA DOJ is not missing it since they would not be showing any delivered firearms.

[NiteQwill]

I've been trying to contact CA DOJ for some time since my IA brought up this issue with me. They never answer their phones or return voicemails/emails (not surprising).

Do you think if I include the voluntary registration + a letter explaining the situation + a copy of the DES printout AND DROS paperwork... would they accept it with no payment?

I know speaking of hypotheticals here & CA DOJ... is like saying unicorns exist.

[scoutpup99]

The only one that can fix the issue is your dealer. They need to get on the phone with the DES help line to get this resolved. The dealer may be able to submit dros correction forms for the firearms.

[NiteQwill]

The only one that can fix the issue is your dealer. They need to get on the phone with the DES help line to get this resolved. The dealer may be able to submit dros correction forms for the firearms.

Thanks. Contacted my FFL. I know they will make it right, they're an excellent shop and group of folks. Keep you guys updated.

[NiteQwill]

FFL was able to catch guns in the last 30 days. However, any purchases after that since January 1st... They will have to contact the DOJ. yikes... That's a lot of transactions.

Posted using Tapatalk.

[send it_hit]

that's no fun… looks like they've been forgetting to click the "deliver gun" button. Maybe that's why the DES menu had a big reminder on the homepage when you log in for the past couple days.

Good for you, for helping out your LGS. Hopefully they get it all squared away.

[kemasa]

There are a lot of issues there. They need to get the person to sign the DROS with the delivery date/time as well, plus they need to give the person a copy, neither of which they likely did.

[NiteQwill]

It's a good, local FFL with great prices. Serving lots of customer. I would not want an issue to cause them to go bye-bye. It would be a loss for the local firearms community.

According to them, they didn't see the reminder until I mentioned it to them yesterday. They were supposedly only able to mark 1 of 4 of my guns delivered. The other 3 are past the 30 day deadline. This is obviously a bigger issue with the rest of the customers since January 1st.

There are a lot of issues there. They need to get the person to sign the DROS with the delivery date/time as well, plus they need to give the person a copy, neither of which they likely did.

Yikes. That means they have to contact every customer they've [physically] delivered a firearm to.... that's going to be interesting.

[kemasa]

Yikes. That means they have to contact every customer they've [physically] delivered a firearm to.... that's going to be interesting.

A FFL has to keep up on what the laws are. The CA DOJ sent out notices, the NRA sent out notices. There are forums like this to keep up with what is going on. If a FFL ignores all that, then it is likely that they won't be a FFL for long.

[kemasa]

Yet another warning on the DES web page, this time after you login, with pictures, instead of just text. I have to wonder how big of a problem this is.