DES Acquisition

[hakuna]

Hi,

So I'm a bit confused on the DES "Aquisition" thing. I'm not a secondhand dealer, but according to the letter I got from the DOJ I CAN buy guns from private parties for sale. In the DES the Aquisition choice allows for reporting "BUY" (but not the consignment or other options a secondhand dealer would have). So three questions:

1) Am I supposed to fill out this buy every time I buy a gun from any private party for inventory? (seems like a "duh" but just checking.)

2) Is this for handguns? Or any gun?

3) What if it's out of state? It looks like I can use an out of state DL as per the DES manual, but how the heck are you supposed to get a fingerprint?

Thanks,
Gary

[hakuna]

[kemasa]

You need to be a secondhand dealer in order to buy firearms from CA residents for inventory, although the manual seems to indicate otherwise (page 64). According to that, you can buy firearms, but can not consign unless you are a secondhand dealer.

Firearms from out of state do not fall under the requirement, or so I have been told by those who are secondhand dealers.

[So Cal Gunner]

This begs the question, if you have a second hand dealer license and are purchasing a firearm for inventory, not trade or consignment, do you record the acquisition through DES or FDAS?

[kemasa]

I think, but not sure, that the new DES system replaces the FDAS system, so you might want to check with the DOJ on that.

The DES manual states that it will has the FDAS number (page 67).

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

What about all the dealers that have been ignoring FDAS since they do not have 2nd hand dealer licenses?

Will you now start using the DES acquisition screen? What about the 30 day hold nonsense? Does that go away?

It would be great if a few dealers chimed in.


Eddy's Shooting Sports
(650)969-GUNS

[kemasa]

Hmmm, do you really want FFLs who have been violating the law to chime in admitting that? Personally, I don't know of any FFLs who have done what you said, but I would not doubt that is the case.

The 30 day hold is to give time to check to see if the firearm is stolen, which makes some sense. You could say that if it is stolen, it should be instant, but if it was just stolen then it would not be in the system. It is the same, as I understand it, as with pawn shops.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

I know of several and all have agreed they all believe they are not violating the law because their local authorities do not issue second dealer licenses.


Eddy's Shooting Sports
(650)969-GUNS

[gw74r]

If I understand it correctly, you now cannot submit a used firearm acquisition in the new DES, unless you have a Second Hand Dealer License Number to put in the blank. Is that correct? If so, it appears they have created a way to force FFL's comply with the PC, whether or not their local LEA requires it, or even has a system in place to apply for it. Anyone know????

[gw74r]

Re-read the manual and answered my own question. Nowhere to enter a second hand dealer license. They are allowing ALL dealers to submit an acquisition. This would seem to allow dealers to buy for inventory (but not consign or pawn) without needing a second hand dealers license, thus by-passing the PC requirement. And how do you obtain a signature / thumbprint from an out of state seller?? Doesn't make any sense. I'm gonna call DOJ and ask.

[Condorguns]

I have a pending issue with doj ( 01-01-14) on this issue. They just keep telling me they are asking the managers about this. I will let you know how it shakes out.

[gw74r]

Great and thanks for your input. Did you try to submit an acquisition and it didn't work? It makes no sense why they would have a default for all dealers without a second hand / Pawn license, if one is required to buy used.

[Condorguns]

Great and thanks for your input. Did you try to submit an acquisition and it didn't work? It makes no sense why they would have a default for all dealers without a second hand / Pawn license, if one is required to buy used.

Nope, my issue was not having access to the consignment section. I am one of the no second hand dealer license issued in my area. We ran off a letter from the sheriff and sending in the acquisition form to DOJ. Now I only have access to the Buy function. We don't pawn, but I would like my consign back.

[Condorguns]

Heard from DOJ. Looks like it was just a problem with the FDAS info getting over to the new system. Fingers crossed we will be better now. They were very polite.

[gw74r]

OK now I'm really confused. I talked to both the DES help line and the main DOJ BOF office. The lady at the help line stated the "Buy" transaction screen, which shows up for all dealers, is for for firearms purchased for inventory. Consignment and Pawn screens are options if you have a SHDL, and are for consigning or pawning. She could not answer why the "Buy" transaction screen doesn't require a SHDL. She referred me to the main office for "legal" questions. A very nice agent there told me if your local LEA doesn't require a SHDL, you don't need one, and that is what the default "Buy" screen is for. He even went to check on it and called me right back confirming it.
Clearly, DOJ BOF is either not on the same page with the B&P codes, which the way I read it, does not differentiate firearms "Dealers" from "Second Hand Dealers", or the rules have changed with the new DES system. It also appears the new acquisition entry replaces the FDAS, but now appears to require all firearms acquired, not just handguns, to be reported. Another question I didn't get a chance to ask was, by requiring a signature and thumbprint from the seller, how can you purchase a used firearm for inventory from an out of town seller. I'm gonna call back tomorrow about those questions.