AR15 Pistol and LEO exemption question

[CifaldiPrecision]

I believe the issue with ca residents owning AR15 pistols is that they arent drop tested and therefore not on the ca authorized pistols so stripped lowers cant be registered as a pistol. Am I wrong on this understanding?

If my understanding with the issue on AR15 pistols is correct then couldn't a LEO buy any stripped lower, register it as an off list pistol lower and then build an AR15 pistol?

[RickD427]

I believe the issue with ca residents owning AR15 pistols is that they arent drop tested and therefore not on the ca authorized pistols so stripped lowers cant be registered as a pistol. Am I wrong on this understanding?

If my understanding with the issue on AR15 pistols is correct then couldn't a LEO buy any stripped lower, register it as an off list pistol lower and then build an AR15 pistol?

You have a real good understanding. The whole issue revolves around the "Safe Handgun Roster." You also need to ensure that any such weapons either not meet the definition of an Assault Weapon, or be properly registered as an Assault Weapon.

LEOs may purchase non-rostered handguns, including a pistol AR15 lower.

Private persons, and LEOs, may not assemble a pistol from an AR15 lower that was DROS'd, or was at one time, a rifle.

An LEO may still be able to register an Assault Weapon with the DOJ, making an AW build a possibility. The Attorney General has issued an opinion that such registered weapons must be surrendered upon retirement or end-of-employment. These late registrations require the endorsement of the LEOs agency and those agency policies vary widely (mine will not provide the authorization).

[bajadan]

LE is exempt from the law. He can DROS a lower as pistol only.

LE can PPT the stripped lower also. PPT transfers are not subject to the CA Safe Handgun List.

[acespawnshop]

The lower would have to have been manufactured as a pistol lower.

[lorax3]

The lower would have to have been manufactured as a pistol lower.

There is no such thing as a "pistol" lower. Receivers are just receivers, and are logged as such in both the A&D book and on the 4473 when purchased. Virgin receivers can be built into Rifles, Shotguns, Pistols, or Others regardless of the markings on the lower.

Stripped receivers can be DROS'ed by LEO (or other roster exempt persons) as handguns.

Once the LEO takes possession of the receiver they can build it into a pistol. As always, they need to adhere to the California Assault Weapon codes and ensure they build a legal firearm.

[VC Defense]

I would be careful with this.

If a receiver was ever transferred as a long gun (as they typically are in California), it is (federally) always considered a long gun. Put a short barreled upper on it and you have assembled a short barreled rifle. It doesn't matter if you take the butt stock off. Have a short barreled upper, a rifle lower and no matching pistol lower in your possession and get nailed for constructive possession.

Two truly proper ways to own an AR pistol in CA:
1. Build one yourself from an "80% receiver". Perfectly legal, but I wouldn't want to explain to a LEO that doesn't see a make, model serial number and doesn't know it's legal to manufacture your own firearm. Go to jail, hire a lawyer, court..
2. Buy an AR pistol manufactured by an 07 FFL and have it transferred and registered under single shot exemption (SSE). There are manufacturers that build AR pistols. We're one of them and are introducing our pistols this weekend: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...5#post11971185

[kemasa]

I would be careful with this.

If a receiver was ever transferred as a long gun (as they typically are in California), it is (federally) always considered a long gun.

How a firearm is DROS'd does not matter with respect to the Federal laws. Even if the receiver is DROS'd as a long gun, the 4473 still shows it as other, but the CA DROS has no means for dealing with "other".

[ke6guj]

I would be careful with this.

If a receiver was ever transferred as a long gun (as they typically are in California), it is (federally) always considered a long gun. Put a short barreled upper on it and you have assembled a short barreled rifle. It doesn't matter if you take the butt stock off. Have a short barreled upper, a rifle lower and no matching pistol lower in your possession and get nailed for constructive possession.

incorrect about the feds. the feds have stated that it doesn't matter how a state may paper a receiver, until the receiver has actually been fully assembled with a barrel and shoulder stock, it isn't considered a rifle or shotgun by the feds.

So, even though it is DROSed as a long gun in CA, if you were to assemble it as a pistol, you would not be creating a federally-defined SBR. Now, we assume that CA would consider it to be a CA-defined SBR, but that has not been confirmed.


edit: too slow

[RickD427]

I would be careful with this.

If a receiver was ever transferred as a long gun (as they typically are in California), it is (federally) always considered a long gun. Put a short barreled upper on it and you have assembled a short barreled rifle. It doesn't matter if you take the butt stock off. Have a short barreled upper, a rifle lower and no matching pistol lower in your possession and get nailed for constructive possession.

Two truly proper ways to own an AR pistol in CA:
1. Build one yourself from an "80% receiver". Perfectly legal, but I wouldn't want to explain to a LEO that doesn't see a make, model serial number and doesn't know it's legal to manufacture your own firearm. Go to jail, hire a lawyer, court..
2. Buy an AR pistol manufactured by an 07 FFL and have it transferred and registered under single shot exemption (SSE). There are manufacturers that build AR pistols. We're one of them and are introducing our pistols this weekend: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...5#post11971185

Here's a couple of points to consider:

Regarding Option #1 (Build from an 80% Receiver) - Please note the "Safe Handgun Testing" requirements of Penal Code section 32000. If you build a semi-auto AR pistol, you'll need to submit it for the DOJ testing process. That's kinda expensive. You'll need a mag disconnect, or a loaded chamber indicator. There is no exception for home-builds. Many on this forum have suggested a "do-it-yourself SSE" by adding a single stage phase to your building process. That might work, but a prosecutor may also view what you did as part of the "manufacture" of the weapon, and illegal. I don't know of anyone who has been charged. Folks from the "do-it-yourself SSE" school haven't been able to cite any case law either. It's an unsettled area of law, and you should proceed accordingly. Beware of folks that tell you something is "perfectly legal" without being able to cite the law. They're not the ones who'll go to jail. Please also note the poster's concerns about uninformed LEO's taking enforcement action. I wish there was no foundation for this comment, but I have to admit there is.

Option #2 (Dealer SSE) - Having an SSE done by a dealer is a "well-worn" path. It has worked for some time. I'm not aware of anyone getting into trouble for it. It's quite different from the "do it yourself" because there is a very clear, and objective, paper trail documenting the condition of the weapon. Additionally the "manufacturing" and "converting" steps are done by different persons, and are very distinct from each other. At the same time, this option may go away on January 1st. Assembly Bill 169 would ban the use of the SSE process for semi-autos.

[roushstage2]

Long-Time Bump!!

Just to bump this and ask for my own clarification since I'm just getting into the AR pistol field: I asked a local FFL if I could buy a stripped AR lower from them and DROS it as a pistol, providing the proper ID.

The reply was: "Unfortunately no, as the lower starts its life at the factory as a longgun and then stays a longgun. You would need to purchase an AR Pistol lower receiver that was designed and registered as a pistol."

From what I've read in this thread, that is incorrect, correct?

[RickD427]

Long-Time Bump!!

Just to bump this and ask for my own clarification since I'm just getting into the AR pistol field: I asked a local FFL if I could buy a stripped AR lower from them and DROS it as a pistol, providing the proper ID.

The reply was: "Unfortunately no, as the lower starts its life at the factory as a longgun and then stays a longgun. You would need to purchase an AR Pistol lower receiver that was designed and registered as a pistol."

From what I've read in this thread, that is incorrect, correct?

The problem is that if you're seeking to purchase a handgun from a dealer, which would include the AR pistol lower, it would either need to be on the roster, or be exempt from the roster requirement. A stripped AR pistol lower is neither.

Your only real options are to purchase a completed single-shot AR pistol from a dealer (which is roster-exempt), or to purchase an AR pistol lower from an individual via PPT (also roster-exempt).

[kemasa]

Long-Time Bump!!

Just to bump this and ask for my own clarification since I'm just getting into the AR pistol field: I asked a local FFL if I could buy a stripped AR lower from them and DROS it as a pistol, providing the proper ID.

The reply was: "Unfortunately no, as the lower starts its life at the factory as a longgun and then stays a longgun. You would need to purchase an AR Pistol lower receiver that was designed and registered as a pistol."

From what I've read in this thread, that is incorrect, correct?

Which part?

Unless you are exempt, you can not DROS it as a handgun since it is not on the certified list nor is it exempt.

A lower is just a lower until it is built into something, so that aspect is false.

[roushstage2]

AR15 Pistol and LEO exemption question

The stripped lower receiver. The reply is saying that all stripped lowers are long guns from the factory and the only way to get [an AR] pistol lower is to buy one that was "designed and registered as a pistol" [from the factory]. Essentially that there are two different types of stripped lowers that come from the factory: a long gun one and a pistol one.

[kemasa]

No, there are only one type which is a receiver and is considered "other" by the BATF.

[roushstage2]

There must either be a misunderstanding of how it works or the FFL just doesn't want to do it then? I'll have to look around for another one then, thanks for the clarification/help!