Complete AR lower shipped from Brownell's....

[MotoriousRacing]

.... sale rejected by RifleGear. Here is the lower in question.

100-003-636WB _ Complete M4-Style Lower Receiver _ Mfr Part: F1003645.

*** Cool Story Alert ***

I'm a newb looking for a learning opportunity. Back in January 2013, I convinced a work buddy he should get an AR ASAP if he wanted one. He was short on cash, so I told him to backorder the complete lower (link above). He had to name an FFL, and I helped him with that; either RifleGear or Turner's in Fountain valley. He chose RifleGear.

He finally gets shipment notice from Brownell's then arrival notification from RifleGear. He goes to pick it up (without me to help ask questions), and the RifleGear employee tells him they cannot DROS it to him unless he is LE. He is angry and sad when he tells me the cool story.

So what gives? The Brownell's website says nothing about not shipping to CA unless LE. It doesn't come with high cap mags. I thought maybe the sale was rejected because it needs a bullet button, but I thought RifleGear could have sold and even installed a BB for him to make it legal. If so, why wouldn't they have suggested that. He ended up having RG send it back to Brownell's.

So I feel bad for him and told him not to blame RG or Brownell's; it was my fault for not knowing the laws and giving bad advice. Now, backorder lowers from Brownell's aren't even available, and of course it's hard to find any lowers at all. Again, he really doesn't have more than $400 to spend, so a complete $1500 AR at this time isn't going to happen.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[0351USMC]

because Bushmaster lower has XM15-E2S, XM-15 is on the ban list.

[ASD1]

If a complete lower is shipped into CA with out a BB installed it is a AW. If the FFL that received it is not a AW dealer they must return it that day or they are breaking CA law. A CA dealer can't just add the parts (BB)

[MotoriousRacing]

because Bushmaster lower has XM15-E2S, XM-15 is on the ban list.

Thanks. I thought it was the same lower as this Bushmaster Patrolman 16" Rifle California Versionoffered by RifleGear, which states

* California Sales includes an installed bullet button magazine lock and 10rd magazine for California Compliance.

I don't see XM in any part of the description from Brownell's.

[MotoriousRacing]

If a complete lower is shipped into CA with out a BB installed it is a AW. If the FFL that received it is not a AW dealer they must return it that day or they are breaking CA law. A CA dealer can't just add the parts (BB)

I figured this was my mistake. Thanks.

[0351USMC]

Thanks. I thought it was the same lower as this Bushmaster Patrolman 16" Rifle California Versionoffered by RifleGear, which states


I don't see XM in any part of the description from Brownell's.

in brownells link,if u look at strip bushmaster lower picture,it said XM-15

[kemasa]

If a complete lower is shipped into CA with out a BB installed it is a AW. If the FFL that received it is not a AW dealer they must return it that day or they are breaking CA law. A CA dealer can't just add the parts (BB)

No, it is not. A complete lower is not semi-auto nor center-fire, so the restrictions don't apply. You could put a .22LR upper on it without a bullet button on it. You could also put a non-semi-auto upper on it.

If it is a named lower, it can not be a semi-auto, but could be a bolt action, single shot, pump action, etc.

Go read the law regarding so-called a-salt weapons.

[MotoriousRacing]

No, it is not. A complete lower is not semi-auto nor center-fire, so the restrictions don't apply. You could put a .22LR upper on it without a bullet button on it. You could also put a non-semi-auto upper on it.

If it is a named lower, it can not be a semi-auto, but could be a bolt action, single shot, pump action, etc.

Go read the law regarding so-called a-salt weapons.

It's a little too late now for my buddy, but I can't believe RG would make this mistake and not DROS it. It could have just been the specific guy at the counter didn't know and he didn't ask his manager. My buddy didn't know what to say or ask either.

I actually cancelled my backorder of a DPMS complete lower from Brownell's because I didn't want he same to happen to me. I'm okay with it since I've been able to get three stripped lowers.

[scfrogmansc]

why not just get a 80 % lower and finish it? its very very easy...

[kemasa]

It's a little too late now for my buddy, but I can't believe RG would make this mistake and not DROS it. It could have just been the specific guy at the counter didn't know and he didn't ask his manager. My buddy didn't know what to say or ask either.

I actually cancelled my backorder of a DPMS complete lower from Brownell's because I didn't want he same to happen to me. I'm okay with it since I've been able to get three stripped lowers.

If it is a named lower, then it is best to not transfer it since most people would want to make a semi-auto firearm out of it. You could have the person sign something saying that it can not be made into a semi-auto firearm, but it is still a risk.

There are many FFLs who are not aware of what the law actually is and even more customers who don't know as well.

[tenpercentfirearms]

It's a little too late now for my buddy, but I can't believe RG would make this mistake and not DROS it. It could have just been the specific guy at the counter didn't know and he didn't ask his manager. My buddy didn't know what to say or ask either.

I actually cancelled my backorder of a DPMS complete lower from Brownell's because I didn't want he same to happen to me. I'm okay with it since I've been able to get three stripped lowers.

They did not make a mistake. I wouldn't DROS a listed lower either. Kemasa might feel comfortable doing so as he might have the money and inclination to fight that legal battle. I'd rather not. When there are tons of other off list brands out there, there is no need to take that risk.

Further, did your friend really plan on just leaving it unbuilt forever and never putting an upper on it? If so, then he would be fine. If not, he was planning on committing and possessing a felony.

[shark92651]

I thought maybe the sale was rejected because it needs a bullet button, but I thought RifleGear could have sold and even installed a BB for him to make it legal. If so, why wouldn't they have suggested that. He ended up having RG send it back to Brownell's.

It was because it is on the banned-by-name list, not because it didn't have a Bullet Button installed - we sell and ship off-list complete lowers without Bullet Buttons all the time. Our comfort level is not there with transferring a receiver that has a listed make/model on the ban list, however. We don't want our customers to end up charged with a felony and losing their right to own firearms, and then sending the DOJ to our shop to investigate.

[bill_k_lopez]

If a complete lower is shipped into CA with out a BB installed it is a AW. If the FFL that received it is not a AW dealer they must return it that day or they are breaking CA law. A CA dealer can't just add the parts (BB)

That is complete BS. You don't know what you are talking about.

I have purchased multiple COMPLETE lowers from Rifle Gear without BB's on them.

[ASD1]

That is complete BS. You don't know what you are talking about.

I have purchased multiple COMPLETE lowers from Rifle Gear without BB's on them.

Well I may be wrong : but that is what I was told by the state when we had 1 show up at the shop and called to ask. I should have asked HERE or PMed "kemasa" as he knows the law better then the state guy's do. Sorry for the FUD

[shark92651]

Well I may be wrong : but that is what I was told by the state when we had 1 show up at the shop and called to ask. I should have asked HERE or PMed "kemasa" as he knows the law better then the state guy's do. Sorry for the FUD

We run into dealers every now and then that want to return a lower from us because of this, but that is an issue of a store policy rather than law. The question you should ask yourself is what type of firearm do you list it as on the 4473. Other Firearm (Frame, Receiver), correct? Well then if it is a receiver then it is impossible for it to be a semi-auto, centerfire rifle, which is what is listed in the penal code for it to be an AW if it has a pistol grip and a detachable magazine. There are bolt action and rimfire AR uppers that would be perfectly legal to place on that lower with a detachable magazine and those would not be AWs. If you ask the DOJ to put that legal opinion they gave you in writing, they won't.