FAQ: Shipping

[kemasa]

How about just deleting your post asking about it instead? :-)

[billmaykafer]

As far as I know, yes, it is legal, as long as the firearm is legal.

C&R handguns have to be shipped to a CA FFL and can not go direct.

thanks.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

can a C&R03FFL in maryland ship a C&R rifle to a C&R 03FFL in san diego,ca? my buddy says no,the maryland C&R says yes SKS is type of rifle.

As of right now this is legal of the C&R rifle is also over 50 years old and the receiving party is a C&R FFL. The person shipping it doesn't need any kind of FFL.

Starting next year a rifle will no longer need to be over 50 years old, it will just need to be C&R. But the California C&R FFL will also need to have a COE from CalDOJ.

[tenpercentfirearms]

How about just deleting your post asking about it instead? :-)

The Internet is permanent.

[CifaldiPrecision]

- return of a repaired firearm to its owner by a manufacturer.

.

Just to be clear this is only from a manufacturer and doesn't pertain to when someone sends in work to a FFL gunsmith, correct?

[EOD Guy]

Just to be clear this is only from a manufacturer and doesn't pertain to when someone sends in work to a FFL gunsmith, correct?

No. The exception also applies to licensed gunsmiths or repair facioities,

[kemasa]

As of right now this is legal of the C&R rifle is also over 50 years old and the receiving party is a C&R FFL. The person shipping it doesn't need any kind of FFL.

Do you have a reference for the requirement that it has to be over 50 years old? The 50 year rule applies to FTF w/o going through a FFL.

A person with a C&R FFL is a licensee in terms of C&R long guns and the requirement that it go through a dealer applies to a handgun.

The DOJ says that it can go direct if it is over 50 years old, but there was no reference given. If the person goes out of state, then can pickup a C&R firearm with a C&R FFL and only for handguns do they have to submit a form. I have to wonder if there was a mistake made.

[GunsAndAmmoGirl]

So, reading this has helped a lot, however, is there any updated information regarding shipping a handgun via USPS? Because I was out and about today, I personally took a handgun shipment, inside a flat rate priority mail box, insured and going to another FFL (I am the shipping FFL). They flat out refused saying it needed to be "registered" for an additonal fee of $11.72, and NO clear tape allowed, only brown paper tape..... I did have my ID, FFl license, and the Form 1508 on hand.

Has anyone had this problem or have any suggestions or updated information? Much appreciated in advance. Thanks!

[kemasa]

I would suggest that you call the USPS number from the web page since they are wrong to try to educate them. There is nothing which requires that a firearm be shipped registered, which requires papertape.

Get their names, push the issue by asking to talk to a supervisor and/or postmaster. Realize that they might just be idiots, so don't try to push it too far other than taking names for later use.

You might just need to go to another post office.

You don't need your ID nor your FFL, although it is good to have it.

[GunsAndAmmoGirl]

I would suggest that you call the USPS number from the web page since they are wrong to try to educate them. There is nothing which requires that a firearm be shipped registered, which requires papertape.

Get their names, push the issue by asking to talk to a supervisor and/or postmaster. Realize that they might just be idiots, so don't try to push it too far other than taking names for later use.

You might just need to go to another post office.

You don't need your ID nor your FFL, although it is good to have it.

Thanks for your quick reply Kemasa, and always for your knowledge and sound advice.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Do you have a reference for the requirement that it has to be over 50 years old? The 50 year rule applies to FTF w/o going through a FFL.

It's Penal Code Section 27965...

CPC 27965
(a) If all of the following requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 does not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:

(1) The sale, loan, or transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(2) The firearm is not a handgun.
(3) The firearm is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date but is not a replica, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

(b) This section shall remain in effect only until January 1, 2014, and as of that date is repealed, unless a later enacted statute, that is enacted before January 1, 2014, deletes or extends that date.

As you know, all firearms transfers in California have to go through a "California licensed dealer" unless there is an exemption. C&R FFLs in California are able to get C&R long guns that are over 50 years old shipped to their door because of the above exemption. C&R handguns and newer C&R rifles don't qualify. So even though a California C&R FFL is exempt from the federal requirement to transfer C&R firearms through a dealer when the firearm is coming from outside of California, they still have to comply with California's dealer transfer requirement on everything except 50+ year old C&R long guns. It's the exact same exemption non-FFLs in California use to transfer 50+ year old C&R long guns, but non-FFLs are limited to transfers between two California residents.

A person with a C&R FFL is a licensee in terms of C&R long guns and the requirement that it go through a dealer applies to a handgun.

California's requirement that it go through a dealer applies to all firearms except those listed in the CPC 27965 exemption.

If the person goes out of state, then can pickup a C&R firearm with a C&R FFL and only for handguns do they have to submit a form. I have to wonder if there was a mistake made.

While outside of California, a California C&R FFL is not subject to California laws. So they can acquire C&R handguns and C&R long guns of any age. When the California legislature realized this some time in the mid to late 1990's they came up with the requirement that C&R FFLs had to register any C&R handguns they acquired while they were outside of California within five days of returning. Starting next year the same will apply to C&R long guns acquired while outside of California.

[kemasa]

It's Penal Code Section 27965...

I would not count on that.

There are sections, which that section does not, which reference licensed collectors, as an example:

(d) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of
eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.
(e) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector
pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the
regulations issued thereto.

That section does not deal with those who are licensed as a collector, which means it applies to everyone. You need to search for the exemptions for licensed collectors.

...
While outside of California, a California C&R FFL is not subject to California laws. So they can acquire C&R handguns and C&R long guns of any age. When the California legislature realized this some time in the mid to late 1990's they came up with the requirement that C&R FFLs had to register any C&R handguns they acquired while they were outside of California within five days of returning. Starting next year the same will apply to C&R long guns acquired while outside of California.

Actually, that is not quite true. Since it is 30 days:

27966. Commencing January 1, 2014, if all of the following
requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 shall not apply to the
sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(a) The sale, loan, or transfer is infrequent, as defined in
Section 16730.
(b) The firearm is not a handgun.
(c) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11
of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(d) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of
eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.
(e) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector
pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the
regulations issued thereto.
(f) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person
to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver
in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes
information concerning the individual taking possession of the
firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of
the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete
pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I don't even know how to reply. You are just quoting random bits of penal code that don't apply to what we are talking about. I talk about California C&R FFLs receiving C&R firearms inside California from people who are not California licensed dealers, and you post a blurb from the penal code about receiving C&R firearms from California licensed dealers. I tell you that California C&R FFLs have to report C&R handguns that they acquire while outside of California within five days of returning to California with the handgun, and you claim it's thirty days. Then you post the penal code section dealing with transfers of C&R long guns that happen inside of California after January 1, 2014.

WTF!?!?

CPC Section 27545 says that in California, when neither party to a transaction is a California licensed dealer, the transaction must go through a California licensed dealer. CPC 27965 exempts C&R long guns that are over 50 years old from this requirement. What is so hard to understand about that? Are you claiming there is another section of the Penal Code that exempts newer C&R long guns? If so, please point it out.

[kemasa]

The CA PC documents what is illegal and/or what must be done. It does not document what is legal. The requirement that a C&R FFL holder report a C&R purchased out of state and brought into CA is in the CA PC.

I said it changes in 2014 and it will no longer be 5 days, but 30 days, so it is not the same for long guns as it is today for handguns.

It is legal under Federal law for a person with a C&R FFL to receive any C&R firearm. CA requires C&R handguns to go through a dealer. There are exemptions in the CA PC for those with a C&R FFL, as an example. So please show me where it is illegal for a person with a C&R FFL to receive a C&R long gun. The code section you quoted does not deal with the issue of the person having a C&R FFL.

Please show me where in the CA PC it allows a person to eat a blueberry muffin in a park on a Sunday.

[kemasa]

Can a FFL ship to a private party?

In some cases, yes, such as a return of a firearm for gun smithing work.

Lets say I travel a long distance for a FTF private party transfer/DROS.
Can the FFL then ship the firearm to me after the waiting period?

In that case, no. You need to sign the 4473 at the end of the waiting period and the FFL also has to see your ID again.