Turner's Operations Dealer Handling Fee - $9 ?!?!

[TheCommonDenominator]

I recently purchased a handgun on sale from Turner's Outdoorsman to beat the 11% communist tax increase. I haven't purchased from Turner's in years, but upon checking my receipt I noticed I was charged an additional $9 for their "Dealer Handling Fee" in addition to the standard DROS fee of $37.19. When I inquired, why they were charging me $9 to do business with them, they stated it's their fee for processing the paperwork and "they've been charging it for over 10-years". I received no additional "service" for this $9 fee than any other FFL has provided - no chair, refreshments, or walking it out to place it into my trunk, no 'service' at all.... lol

They have effectively lost any future business from me, as this is akin to utility/cell phone company's charging their assortment of bogus fees... I tried looking up what FFL's can legally charge, but as long as they do not list it as DROS related, apparently they can charge whatever they want. Thusly, I will use Ammo Bros. and brick & mortar shops for ALL my future purchases. Just thought I would attempt to warn others of Turner's scheme....

[ugimports]

Would you have preferred they added the $9 to the price of the firearm so you had to pay tax on it as well?

That's what would happen if they were to get rid of the separate fee. It helps in their advertising that their firearms are $9 less then perhaps competitors so you get in the door.

Just keep that in mind when you shop with them. I was a Turner's customer 25+ years ago when I still lived in Southern California. I'm sure it was much different back then, but my comments would apply to any store. if they are pricing their firearms $X less and then change that to a "fee" then just account for that in the math. Yes it's inconvenient, but unless that fee is taxable they are saving you at least a few cents on tax.

[flyer898]

It sounds like it is time to sue. The conduct complained of is likely a violation of Business and Professions Code sections 17500 (false advertising) and 17200 (unlawful business practice). There are civil penalties of up to $2500 for each violation and the penalties are cumulative. There is also a privare right of action, and you may (I am not sure) be able to sue in small claims court.
I hate to recommend lawsuits against any member of our community, but this is over the top. If I was Turners, I would be worried about what Rob Bonta might do; he is no friend of ours and would likely take great pleasure in suing Turners out of existence.

[Nardo1895]

It sounds like it is time to sue. The conduct complained of is likely a violation of Business and Professions Code sections 17500 (false advertising) and 17200 (unlawful business practice). There are civil penalties of up to $2500 for each violation and the penalties are cumulative. There is also a privare right of action, and you may (I am not sure) be able to sue in small claims court.
I hate to recommend lawsuits against any member of our community, but this is over the top. If I was Turners, I would be worried about what Rob Bonta might do; he is no friend of ours and would likely take great pleasure in suing Turners out of existence.

That makes great sense. Drive another CA FFL out of business. Better to just to shop elsewhere if you don't like their practices.

[TheCommonDenominator]

It helps in their advertising that their firearms are $9 less then perhaps competitors so you get in the door.

It's deceptive as they do not disclose the added fee prior to making the sale, nor at the register - only upon excising due diligence of reviewing your receipt does one notice. There's no added service provided for said added fee. They're doing their jobs regardless, it's not like you can opt out of the fee and offer to do the paperwork yourself lol. If I would have known about said fee, I would have went to a local competitor and had them price match and give their competitor my business - which is what I will have to do from now on. It's my money and I have a say of where/how it is spent on commercial goods...

Imagine you went to a sit-down restaurant and upon paying the check you notice were charged a 'bus-boy' fee to clean your table after you leave. It's ludicrous...

[ugimports]

It's deceptive as they do not disclose the added fee prior to making the sale, nor at the register - only upon excising due diligence of reviewing your receipt does one notice. There's no added service provided for said added fee. They're doing their jobs regardless, it's not like you can opt out of the fee and offer to do the paperwork yourself lol. If I would have known about said fee, I would have went to a local competitor and had them price match and give their competitor my business - which is what I will have to do from now on. It's my money and I have a say of where/how it is spent on commercial goods...

Imagine you went to a sit-down restaurant and upon paying the check you notice were charged a 'bus-boy' fee to clean your table after you leave. It's ludicrous...

Well I have no idea what they do or do not disclose in their fine print anywhere. And would I prefer a bus-boy fee over raising prices and being taxed. Yeah probably. Would I be just as annoyed as you? Yeah I would too...

For example some cities have the lame "health employee" fee or whatever it's called. I don't recall anywhere I've been at where it was super up front in bold big letter that they are charging that. Like you mentioned, you likely wouldn't notice that it's there unless you look at the receipt. And as you mentioned you are free to go elsewhere as a result of being annoyed by it. I don't disagree you should vote with your feet/wallet.

On the flip side you could do due diligence and also ask - are there any other fees besides X, Y, Z (ask any dealer that) and then you'll know up front as well.

[sass2924]

So your adding $4.50/hr to do a PPT or Purchase.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Would you have preferred they added the $9 to the price of the firearm so you had to pay tax on it as well?

That's what would happen if they were to get rid of the separate fee. It helps in their advertising that their firearms are $9 less then perhaps competitors so you get in the door.

Just keep that in mind when you shop with them. I was a Turner's customer 25+ years ago when I still lived in Southern California. I'm sure it was much different back then, but my comments would apply to any store. if they are pricing their firearms $X less and then change that to a "fee" then just account for that in the math. Yes it's inconvenient, but unless that fee is taxable they are saving you at least a few cents on tax.

The fee is still taxable, so that should not be an issue. Otherwise we would all make our guns $1 and you would pay a $698 paperwork fee. The state is smarter than that.

I learned long ago raise your prices and have no additional fees. No one likes additional fees. If that gun was $9 or even $25 more, this thread would not exist.

[ugimports]

The fee is still taxable, so that should not be an issue. Otherwise we would all make our guns $1 and you would pay a $698 paperwork fee. The state is smarter than that.

I learned long ago raise your prices and have no additional fees. No one likes additional fees. If that gun was $9 or even $25 more, this thread would not exist.

I believe excise taxable, yes, but not sales taxable depending what the fee is. I do agree with you that having the additional "fees" just makes things more complex. However, I don't think it impacts their business much so there's probably not a reason for them to change.

[BOBGBA]

Which gun did you buy?

[tenpercentfirearms]

I believe excise taxable, yes, but not sales taxable depending what the fee is. I do agree with you that having the additional "fees" just makes things more complex. However, I don't think it impacts their business much so there's probably not a reason for them to change.

Everything that the retailer charges towards the retail sale is sales taxable. Only government fees for non-tangible goods is not taxable. All tangible personal property is taxable. And them charging you a $9 paperwork fee is part of the retail sale. Again, otherwise I would make my paperwork fees $698 and the gun $1. I know for a fact I will owe the sales tax on the $699.

[CALI-gula]

I recently purchased a handgun on sale from Turner's Outdoorsman to beat the 11% communist tax increase. I haven't purchased from Turner's in years, but upon checking my receipt I noticed I was charged an additional $9 for their "Dealer Handling Fee" in addition to the standard DROS fee of $37.19. When I inquired, why they were charging me $9 to do business with them, they stated it's their fee for processing the paperwork and "they've been charging it for over 10-years". I received no additional "service" for this $9 fee than any other FFL has provided - no chair, refreshments, or walking it out to place it into my trunk, no 'service' at all.... lol

They have effectively lost any future business from me, as this is akin to utility/cell phone company's charging their assortment of bogus fees... I tried looking up what FFL's can legally charge, but as long as they do not list it as DROS related, apparently they can charge whatever they want. Thusly, I will use Ammo Bros. and brick & mortar shops for ALL my future purchases. Just thought I would attempt to warn others of Turner's scheme....

Used to be $5.00. I get inflation but $9.00 is toeing the line of hidden costs. I came to understand the charge, and they are allowed to charge it so long as it's disclosed prior to sale.

What I never felt ethical was this not being included in the base-price of firearms in their ads, even if stated elsewhere in the ad. It offers no additional service or perk above any other store doing a sale of a firearm (actually, they should be paying the buyer that fee because you are dealing with Turdner's ineptitude and lousy service.) So it's really just padding the bill over their advertised price hoping you don't catch it until the sale/DROS process is complete. As it's taxable, it's just part of the overall price and truly deceptive advertising.

Not that I care. It would be very rare for me to ever buy anything from Turdners ever again. I think the last time I bought something from Turdner's was when the new version of Ruger's PCC 9mm came out. Prior to that I hadn't bought anything from them in about 8 years. They rarely have the type or level of firearms that get my money, their service is crap, the FUD is thicker than Bonta's turds, and they seem to muck things up with inventory or the DROS at least 1 out of 5 times. The only things that might interest me would be their consignment guns for the rare or interesting, but whoever is deciding the asking price on those, regardless of location, needs their head examined. Not to mention, most of the consignment guns they do sell our misrepresented due to ignorance, where finish originality, condition, identification, or even model is blatantly in error.


.

[CALI-gula]

So your adding $4.50/hr to do a PPT or Purchase.

Nailed it.

.

[big blaze]

I thought a new California law took effect July 1 making it illegal for businesses to have hidden or junk fees.
Bill SB478

[Quiet]

I thought a new California law took effect July 1 making it illegal for businesses to have hidden or junk fees.
Bill SB478

Effective 07-01-2024, as long as the service fee is posted/displayed, then it is legal. [CIV 1770(a)(29)(A)]

If you want them to stop charging the fee or to add the fee into their advertised price, then...
...(option A) you need to file a lawsuit and get the CA Courts to make them do it. [CIV 1780(a)]
...(option B) you need to bring media pressure on them so that they voluntarily change what they are doing.

AFAIK, Turners says...
~They are still compliant with CIV 1770 because their online pricing has as a disclaimer: "Attention: Pricing on firearms does not reflect governmental or dealer fees for mandated background checks and/or dealer transfer fees; these fees will be charged by the FFL dealer you select during the checkout process. See FFL dealer for details." in the description of each firearm advertised for sale online and their physical locations have all their dealer fees posted inside their stores.
~Their online prices do not include their fees, because a person can buy online and have it shipped to another FFL, so those fees would not apply and their attention disclaimer meets their legal requirements for their advertised prices.




Civil Code 1770
(a) The unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices listed in this subdivision undertaken by any person in a transaction intended to result or that results in the sale or lease of goods or services to any consumer are unlawful:
(29)(A) Advertising, displaying, or offering a price for a good or service that does not include all mandatory fees or charges other than either of the following:
(i) Taxes or fees imposed by a government on the transaction.
(ii) Postage or carriage charges that will be reasonably and actually incurred to ship the physical good to the consumer.
(c) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2024.

Civil Code 1780