Diary of a Would-Be FFL

[TheExpertish]

This will be the chronicle of my adventure, or misfortune.

12/01/2011

Today I took the first step of realizing a goal I set for myself; getting my 01 Federal Firearms License. The first step was getting the wife's blessing to upgrade from my 03 FFL.

My plan is to cater to estate sales and consignments with my love of Curio & Relics as my motive. Eventually I would love to have a full store front. I chose my screen name with this goal in mind when I became a Calgunner. The whole business name will likely be Gadsden Armory & Outfitters.

So using the steps and extremely helpful threads by Librarian and tenpercentfirearms as my guide, I started off on seeing if getting an 01 FFL in my town was even possible. First call was to the city business license office. It went pretty much as expected.

Clerk - "Business licensing office."
Me - "Hi, I'm looking at opening a firearms retailer in the city. What do you need in order to obtain a permit?"
Clerk - (pause) "Wait...a, what?"
Me - "A gun store. I want to open one. Can I even do that in this city?"
Clerk - "Uh, maybe you should talk to 'planning' first."

So she gives me the number to the Planning Office, and that conversation was much more eventful. She said all I needed to do was stick to commercially zoned areas of the city. Perfect. Call back the licensing office and no answer. I leave an email instead.

Next on the list, call the Chief of Police's office. I spoke with his secretary and turns out he's totally pro 2A and is okay with having a store in his city. She offered any assistance I needed including letters or whatever else would be needed. Score!

So far things seem to be going well enough, but I still anticipate hurdles out there. I will need a business banking account and I refuse to bank with anyone who received a bailout. I'm very pro local banks, and know it would have it's advantages in getting a loan for expansion later. So I pick up the phone to call my first choice and see what sort of merchant services they offer.

Banker - "Such & Such Bank, this is Moreen."
Me - "Hi, I'm starting a business and looking into opening an account and I want to know what your requirements are."
Banker - "Great! What sort of business are you starting?"
Me - "A firearms retail and consignment store."
Banker - "A 'what' kind of store?"
Me - (Figuring I'd soften the blow) "I'm looking to consign and sell historic firearms."
Banker - "Um, I'm not even sure we can do that. Let me find out. Can you hold please?"
Me - "Sure."
10 seconds later...
Banker - "Hi, I'm going to have to have someone get back to you on that. What's your name and number?"

So I give her my info and figure in the end it shouldn't be a big deal. Just seems that there might be a skeptic bias out there when it comes to the term "firearm" or "gun" out there. Go figure, right? I can picture their minds going to this dark place picturing me coming into their bank with a bunch of guns and shooting up the place every time I make a deposit because I'm a "gun person". Like I'm Yosemite Sam or something. Either that or they see me continuing the Fast and Furious legacy and supplying your local drug cartel. Californian's...

Next, my location. The plan for now is a small business office where I can conduct transactions, and have a safe. Everything would be by appointment only for now so I don't need alot of space. Called one location that seemed perfect and the price was right; owner is on site, it's down the street from the police station....it seemed perfect. I call and she seems okay with everything as long as the city allows it. I assure her it does and it's okay. She invites me to come by to look at one of the offices. So I drop by and now she's not comfortable with it. Waste of a drive. Figures. Back to the craigslist drawing board for the next candidate.

So I end the day with some key successes. I can and will open for business here. I won't say where here is for now just because. Maybe partly because I want you to put yourself in my shoes and envision this for your city. Either way tomorrow is a new day and I hope to find a potential location willing to hear the word "gun" and not run away screaming.

[rogtac]

good job on your research so far. You should have no problem opening a business bank account, but the merchant service could cause you some hurdles. my business bank (Wells Fargo) would not even provide me a merchant account for my accessories business. I ended up joining the NRA Business Alliance and signed up with PAI for my merchant account. However, you can get a PAI account without joining NRA Business Alliance or NSSF. I am also using authorize.net for my gateway and have not had any problems from them (yet) even though many people say authorize.net is anti-gun and will drop you if you sell guns or gun related items. I am also thinking of renting a small office/warehouse space as my inventory is starting to swell and I do not want to keep so much stuff in my house. Wish you the best of luck in your endeavor and look forward to hearing your progress.

[TheExpertish]

good job on your research so far. You should have no problem opening a business bank account, but the merchant service could cause you some hurdles. my business bank (Wells Fargo) would not even provide me a merchant account for my accessories business. I ended up joining the NRA Business Alliance and signed up with PAI for my merchant account. However, you can get a PAI account without joining NRA Business Alliance or NSSF. I am also using authorize.net for my gateway and have not had any problems from them (yet) even though many people say authorize.net is anti-gun and will drop you if you sell guns or gun related items. I am also thinking of renting a small office/warehouse space as my inventory is starting to swell and I do not want to keep so much stuff in my house. Wish you the best of luck in your endeavor and look forward to hearing your progress.

Thanks. So far I have heard back from the bank and the business license office and both are a go. Now I just need a location. Unfortunately this city requires a commercial space. Regardless, it's not like I would even begin to get permission from my apartments owners. I've called a few other places and have about 3 brokers/managers who are waiting to hear back from the owners.

[TheExpertish]

12/02/2011

Dear Calgunners,

So last night heard back from the licensing office. They said there is no room to put the DOJ required "Valid for the retail sale of firearms" other than in the address line. She said they can notate it in their computer, but I think I'll just have them do both. Only other option is to throw it in the typewriter after the fact, and I'm not sure I want to risk it looking hinky.

I did check out a location today, and it's in an even better spot. It's closer to the police station, and it's still affordable...relatively. It's not sticking with the plan, but my old plan appears to be out the window. Just trying to not bite off more than I can chew at the start. Probably goes without saying with any new business. So, now I just need to come up with a timeline that works and start send out applications.

[wash]

Try to learn a couple lessons from Sunnyvale and Pleasant Hill.

FFLs in those two cities had some difficulty because they were maybe a little too visible.

It isn't right and it shouldn't be this way but "Armory" might attract some unwanted attention from the antis.

It's better to let the soccer moms figure out you are a gun shop after you've been there for a year.

Maybe open as Gadsen Consignment Sales and change your name next year?

[TheExpertish]

Wash, and garandguy10, those are some great suggestions. My city does require me to have a commercial address, and even if they did not my landlord would never sign off on it. No biggie I suppose/hope. The location I am likely to start off in is no where near soccer Mom territory and the business will be extremely low key. I plan on doing most of the sales here and Gunbroker for now. Not much new retail, but I do have some single shot conversion offering ideas. Funny you two should mention using "armory" in the name because I was thinking about it today and was considering just using the initials GA&O, or my soon-to-be corporate identity.

[curvejunkie]

So far, our biggest hurdle has been finding a location. Almost four months of looking, meeting with and having the "no, we dont want a gunstore" response. Finally did find out we liked, but still, was the largest hurdle. Now waiting on the state to get the paperwork through..

[TheExpertish]

Be careful about any firearm conversions, modifications etc. A 01FFL is NOT the same as an manufacturer FFL.

The BATFE is VERY restrictive on what they consider to be manufacturing.

Contact the BATFE for more details.

I know. Been doing ALOT of reading here. Would only be looking at doing single-shot conversions which ATF now says an 01 is okay to do. I will have to look into what other restrictions there are on the odd request I may get.

[TheExpertish]

12/03/2011

Dear Calgunners,

So talked to the wife a bit more on the updates. She agrees on going with a more subtle name. Wife said the name I want might inspire "left wing women of an alternative lifestyle choice" to picket or sue me. She used the regular term, but I want to start being PC as a future business owner. Might even have to go back to the drawing board completely. I've been thinking even the name Gadsden may perk the ears of any Brady's in the area. Sigh...

Also requested two insurance quotes online so hopefully get some good news Monday. This is one big unknown for me, and the wife thinks this will be an extremely expensive aspect of the business. Hope she's wrong.

Messaged two other Calgunners in regards to security for the potential location, and ccd options. I like the progress I'm making so far. Need to get cracking on the business plan as well.

[curvejunkie]

Dear Calgunners,

Also requested two insurance quotes online so hopefully get some good news Monday. This is one big unknown for me, and the wife thinks this will be an extremely expensive aspect of the business. Hope she's wrong.
.

Definately try the NRA Business Alliance Insurance. I was in shock by how little they are going to charge. We budgeted almost three times what the policy came in at.

[CIV Tactical]

great thread.. Its good to know i am not alone. I to am pursuing a type type 1 and type 7 ffl as a goal in my life. I figured I would start by getting incorporated and opening an online parts store from my house just to get the ball rolling. I went down to zoning clearance and filled out the application and the next thing i know there telling me the chief of police needs to ok it. Im not even trying to sell guns yet, just parts. So now im waiting for a call from opd to explain what im trying to do and to see they will approve it. ive been a nervous wreck. I have money invested in my webstore and parts and now i might not even be able to do it. good luck to you all pursuing what you want in life.

[wash]

I think you may be giving the antis too much credit.

They obviously don't know anything about American history and they aren't really left wing alternative lifestyle. They are really bitter and barren old crows who have nothing better to do than mess with us and justify it as saving children or something.

Sometimes I think they should probably just be crazy cat ladys but maybe they don't like cleaning litter boxes or they are worried that no one will notice when they die and they will get eaten by the cats.

As for sexual orientation, not likely. It would be like humping Satan in a sandpaper factory.

I doubt that they understand what a Gadsen flag is and even if they did, they probably wouldn't make a connection to guns.

[TheExpertish]

curvejunkie, thanks for that suggestion. I will definately have to give them a try. Yeah, I've been expecting an nightmare number to insure this. CivArms, hopefully you can pull it off. Worst case maybe just look at relocating to an inexpensive office. There is a major surplus of office and commercial space near me. You can rent an address and mailbox for $50 per month and no one would have to be the wiser. A small box can be had for $150 on the bottom rung. No need to advertise what you are either since you're not needing an FFL. I have a feeling your licensing office is getting the wrong impression and is not aware you don't need an FFL to sell gun parts. They probably think you're trying to be a dealer. wash, the term the wife actually used was "liberal lesbians" if you didn't figure it out already, haha. I get what you're saying, but I think I came up with a name I like better. So much for my screen name then.

[ugimports]

Can you quote the PC stating that the posters must be visible during the transfer process? This would seem to make it impossible to start paperwork and deliver firearms at a gunshow. (Highlighted below)

I wasn't aware of this requirement.

...
5. All 4473/DROS Forms must be filled out and completed at your licensed premesis and ALL transfers of firearms to an unlicensed buyer MUST take place INSIDE of your licensed premesis, or other Federal/State approved venue (bonified gunshow). Example: You can not deliver a newly purchased firearm to an unlicensed individual at his home, or place of work, or out of the trunk of your car in a dark parking lot, even after all the forms are filled out, waiting period over etc. You can not bring a 4473 or DROS form to someone outside of your licensed premises to start the paperwork on a firearms transfer.The unlicensed buyer must be able to read all of those Federal and State warning posters before and during the firearm purchase process from you.

...

[eletrickill]

Awesome Thread. Please keep ALL the useful informaion coming. Wish i could contribute, but i am also learning in regards to this threads topic.