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[bombadillo]

It is a private sale. Its a PPT weapon on consignment there. They get their 20% of the total sale price for having it on consignment and both parties have to be present to do a PPT of a used firearm. I was pissed when they said they were taking posession of it and blatantly lying about them purchasing it as a business. If it was purchased by the business, there would be no need to have the owner come down and do paperwork would there.

[kemasa]

Oh, to add fuel to the fire, I was at a local shop yesterday and there was a consignment gun on the counter. Older Smith 19 .357 for $550. Great gun, good price. The store wanted to charge tax on the item that was CONSIGNMENT (Should be a PPT) $25 DROS, $10 store fee (unknown why on that one) $15 lock fee, (wouldn't accept me having a safe) So they're trying to rake it in saying its tax for the state even though it is a private party transfer. His explanation was that they were buying the gun from the guy and then they'd have to charge tax. If that were true I would understand, but the transaction would be done as a PPT, not a sale of a used gun. I was so pissed I just walked out.

Sorry, but you are wrong in this case. Since the FFL is finding the buyer, namely perhaps you, then sales tax is to be collected. They can transfer it as a PPT so that the gun does not have to be on the certified list, but that does not change the fact that sales tax has to be collected. They can charge a $10 fee for the transfer, which is limited for a PPT. The Feds require that a lock or a safe be provided and claim that the affidavit does not work, but they have also failed to print up the requirements and so it is basically not enforced. This is why the FFL is requiring that a lock, not a safe be provided. You would be able to bring in a lock (although the BATF attorney says no) without a receipt and sign the safe affidavit for both requirements (give the FFL the lock, then they can provide you the lock back).

[FortCourageArmory]

Bombadillo,
When I agree to consign a firearm for someone, I am acting as their agent to sell the firearm THROUGH MY STORE. We sign an agreement for Fort courage Armory to sell the firearm and it gets booked into my A&D book just like it was received from a wholesale vendor.

All sales done THROUGH MY STORE are required to have sales tax collected. I DO NOT have a choice in this matter. I would prefer not to be an unpaid sales tax collection agent for the State of CA, but the BOE doesn't give me that choice. You are acting like the dealer is greedily tacking on sales tax and then keeping it himself. Grow up.

[bombadillo]

Sorry, but you are wrong in this case. Since the FFL is finding the buyer, namely perhaps you, then sales tax is to be collected. They can transfer it as a PPT so that the gun does not have to be on the certified list, but that does not change the fact that sales tax has to be collected. They can charge a $10 fee for the transfer, which is limited for a PPT. The Feds require that a lock or a safe be provided and claim that the affidavit does not work, but they have also failed to print up the requirements and so it is basically not enforced. This is why the FFL is requiring that a lock, not a safe be provided. You would be able to bring in a lock (although the BATF attorney says no) without a receipt and sign the safe affidavit for both requirements (give the FFL the lock, then they can provide you the lock back).

But thats not how they were saying it happened. It was taken into a store, not the store's inventory. It was never the store's firearm. It was a private firearm of a customer of theirs. I would have then come down with the owner of the gun, and transferred it from him to me. That should be $35 for a PPT, not a sale of a used gun from the inventory of that store. That is where the confusion is at, it was never that store's weapon to begin with. Its fine that they take their 20% of the sale price whatever that is decided upon, but to say it was taken into their inventory is wrong. They have people walking through and looking yes, but it was a private party transfer any way you cut it. Even one of the other FFL's here said it was wrong to do so because I asked him right after I went into that store. They were trying to be shady about it.

[bombadillo]

Bombadillo,
When I agree to consign a firearm for someone, I am acting as their agent to sell the firearm THROUGH MY STORE. We sign an agreement for Fort courage Armory to sell the firearm and it gets booked into my A&D book just like it was received from a wholesale vendor.

All sales done THROUGH MY STORE are required to have sales tax collected. I DO NOT have a choice in this matter. I would prefer not to be an unpaid sales tax collection agent for the State of CA, but the BOE doesn't give me that choice. You are acting like the dealer is greedily tacking on sales tax and then keeping it himself. Grow up.

And that was the difference. That store doesn't sell it through their inventory, it is still sold as a PPT. I've sold consignment firearms through that same store and when the transaction is done, they call me to come do paperwork on a PPT, not sell it to the store and then they sell it to a customer.

[kemasa]

But thats not how they were saying it happened. It was taken into a store, not the store's inventory. It was never the store's firearm. It was a private firearm of a customer of theirs. I would have then come down with the owner of the gun, and transferred it from him to me. That should be $35 for a PPT, not a sale of a used gun from the inventory of that store. That is where the confusion is at, it was never that store's weapon to begin with. Its fine that they take their 20% of the sale price whatever that is decided upon, but to say it was taken into their inventory is wrong. They have people walking through and looking yes, but it was a private party transfer any way you cut it. Even one of the other FFL's here said it was wrong to do so because I asked him right after I went into that store. They were trying to be shady about it.

When the FFL receives the firearm it is logged into the bound book, which means that it is in their inventory. It does NOT matter that they did not pay for it. It also does not matter how the paperwork is done, such as submitting it as a DROS PPT so that it is exempt from the certified list.

Also, if you were to go to the FFL and tell them that you had a firearm to sell and they found the buyer and/or negotiated the price, even though you did not give them the firearm in advance, the FFL is required to collect sales tax on the transaction. In this case, it would be best to do the transfer through another FFL so that sales tax would not have to be collected. In this example it might be hard to prove the involvement of the FFL, but for a consignment it is not. There is paperwork and sales tax has to be collected.

Call the BOE if you like, but you are wrong and the FFL is required to collect sales tax, so it is unfair to make negative comments regarding their having to collect sales tax in this case.

The FFL who says that sales tax does not have to be collected is also wrong. Look at others who say that they have to collect sales tax, look at the BOE information. The FFL is finding the buyer and due to that alone they have to collect sales tax. It is just the way that it is.

[kemasa]

And that was the difference. That store doesn't sell it through their inventory, it is still sold as a PPT. I've sold consignment firearms through that same store and when the transaction is done, they call me to come do paperwork on a PPT, not sell it to the store and then they sell it to a customer.

It is in their inventory when it is left at the store. You could fill out the DROS worksheet in advance, so that you don't have to do anything other than come in and collect your money once the firearm is delivered. It is NOT a matter of selling it to the store and then selling it to a customer, it is a CA business finding the buyer.

[Wildeman_13]

This is not a Guns only sale tax as I'm sure most of you know. I just felt it might be needed to stress that here.

Sales tax on Internet/out of state purchases for ANYTHING are supposed to be filled out and included when you file your state taxes each year. Most people do not keep track of the taxes they "should" have paid on internet purchases but they are supposed to. It is in the tax laws currently although there are some fighting to get rid of it.

So yes... the FFLs charging you sales tax are only doing what the .gov expects you to do anyways, but no one does. This is their way of ensuring they get their cash. If you happen to have whoever you purchased a gun from collect that tax and mail it into CA, you don't and shouldn't have it collected again by the CA FFL. Of course you would have to make sure the receipt shows that CA taxes were collected by the out of state seller. And I don't see any of them in a rush to make that happen.

[ElvenSoul]

Hmmm make out a flyer showing the cost of ffl transfer at your store vs. A big chain store...break down all the cost..so when someone comes in asking about a transfer...you can just hand them a flyer....

You might try this as well. Buy a gun or do a transfer and get 10% off on all transfers for the next 6 months.

[kemasa]

This is not a Guns only sale tax as I'm sure most of you know. I just felt it might be needed to stress that here.

While it is not a firearm only sales tax, it is required that the FFL collect the sales tax, instead of letting the person pay the sales tax at the end of the year, so there is a firearm specific aspect.

[Wildeman_13]

While it is not a firearm only sales tax, it is required that the FFL collect the sales tax, instead of letting the person pay the sales tax at the end of the year, so there is a firearm specific aspect.

Sorry, I guess I should have been a bit more specific here. My point was more directed at those who are outraged at having to pay taxes on these purchases from out of state vendors. I only wanted to remind people that we are responsible for paying these taxes on our income tax forms each year. This includes gun purchases... or would if the FFLs weren't already being forced to ensure they are collected.

[LG FIREARMS]

I appreciate all the dialogue here. All I can say is CA buyers need to realize FFL's are now required by BOE to collect tax. We are not "padding" our pockets.

If the buyer has an FFL who doesn't collect sales tax, then, by all means use them.

Just know, it probably won't last forever.

Some FFL's in this State believe they have staked to much into their businesses to bring this sort of liability onto ourselves. It is not cheap to open this type of business. Every form of government has their fingers into this type of business, local, State, and Feds.

PLEASE understand.....and share this information with all your firearm buddies.

[bombadillo]

It is in their inventory when it is left at the store. You could fill out the DROS worksheet in advance, so that you don't have to do anything other than come in and collect your money once the firearm is delivered. It is NOT a matter of selling it to the store and then selling it to a customer, it is a CA business finding the buyer.

Thats just interesting because there are 2 ffl's that I deal with regularly. One who sells consignment guns and yes they are logged into his inventory but when he sells a gun, he charges his 35 dollars as a private party transfer fee and collects his percentage from the seller being that its a consignment gun.

Another place wants to charge you dealer fee (which is fine by me) tax, dros, lock fee, and anything else they can get you on. Just because its logged into your books doesn't mean that you have to charge sales tax from what my FFL told me here. All that means is that its physically in his shop. If I drop a gun off to have work done, they log it into their books and say that it was worked on. I don't have to pay tax on the gun's blue book value when I pick it up. Same situation here. That makes no sense to say that they are purchasing a gun from the person and selling it. They are consigning the gun and selling it as a private party transfer but still trying to collect tax, dealer fee, dros, etc.

[kemasa]

Just because its logged into your books doesn't mean that you have to charge sales tax from what my FFL told me here.

Well, it sounds like that FFL needs to look at the BOE rules/regulations. If the FFL does a PPT, then it is logged and there is no sales tax as long as the FFL does not get involved, so it is not a matter of having to charge sales tax because of that. The issue is that when the firearm is sold, what is the involvement of the FFL with the sale and that determines whether sales tax is to be collected.

All that means is that its physically in his shop. If I drop a gun off to have work done, they log it into their books and say that it was worked on. I don't have to pay tax on the gun's blue book value when I pick it up.

Huh? There is NO sale, so that means no sales tax. You statements don't make sense as it is apples and oranges.

Same situation here. That makes no sense to say that they are purchasing a gun from the person and selling it. They are consigning the gun and selling it as a private party transfer but still trying to collect tax, dealer fee, dros, etc.

The CA business got involved in the sale, so sales tax has to be paid, which is the case with a consignment.

[bombadillo]

Interesting. It seems as though because they process it as a PPT, it should be completed as a PPT. Just because it happens to be in their store doesn't mean that they've taken ownership of the gun, its on their log books and thats it. Just like saying something is at my house even though it may not be my item.