PPT Gun Lock Question

[krazyk626]

When doing a PPT, does the buyer have to buy another gun lock for a pistol even though the pistol already comes with a gun lock? I have been given a few different answers from different places, and I just want to get a general consensus. Thanks in advance.

[BannedinBritain]

When doing a PPT, does the buyer have to buy another gun lock for a pistol even though the pistol already comes with a gun lock? I have been given a few different answers from different places, and I just want to get a general consensus. Thanks in advance.

Some stores (Turner's comes to mind) will require you to purchase a lock even if the firearm comes with one when doing a PPT. Some will accept the lock that comes with the firearm. Best to ask before getting to the dealer you wish to use.

[garplay]

I AM NOT A LAWYER. I AM NOT AN FFL. But I can use the Google...

The law states:

12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.

...

(e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

Which is pretty clear: EITHER the seller MUST provide the appropriate lock (either the one that came with the gun or a DOJ approved lock), OR the buyer must provide one that was purchased in the past 30 days and prove that it was purchased in the path 30 days.

[ke6guj]

that is CA law, you also have to deal with Federal law when a handgun is involved.

922(z) SECURE GUN STORAGE OR
SAFTEY DEVICE—
(1) IN GENERAL- Except as
Provided under paragraph (2), it shall
be unlawful for any licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, or
licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or
transfer any handgun to any person
other than any person licensed under
this chapter, unless the transferee is
provided with a secure gun storage
or safety device (as defined in sec
tion 921(a)(34)) for than handgun.
(2) EXCEPTIONS – Paragraph
shall not apply to--
(A)(i) the manufacture for, transfer
to, or possession by, the United
States, a department or agency of the
United States, a State, or a depart
ment, agency, or political subdivision
of a State, of a handgun; or
(ii) the transfer to, or possession
by, a law enforcement officer em
ployed by an entity referred to in
clause (i) of a handgun for law en
forcement purposes (whether on or
off duty); or
(B) the transfer to, or possession by
a rail police officer employed by a rail
carrier and certified or commissioned
as a police officer under the laws of a
State of a handgun for purposes of law
enforcement (whether on or off duty);
(C) the transfer to any person of a
handgun listed as a curio or relic by
the Secretary pursuant to section
921(a)(13); or
(D) the transfer to any person of a
handgun for which a secure gun stor
age or safety device is temporarily
unavailable for the reasons described
in the exceptions stated in section
923(e), if the licensed manufacturer,
licensed importer, or licensed dealer
delivers to the transferee within 10
calendar days from the date of the
delivery of the handgun to the trans
feree a secure gun storage or safety

[kemasa]

If the lock is on the approved list and comes with the firearm, then it should be ok for both CA and the Feds. As stated, some places still want to sell a lock.

[krazyk626]

Thanks for all the info guys! I usually go to my local gun shop to do PPTs and they always accept the lock that the pistol comes with. But I had to meet up with a fellow calgunner to do a PPT at a shop recently in a different city and they charged me a extra 20 dollars with my dros fee for a extra lock. They said that I had to buy another lock even though the firearm came with a lock from the factory when it came to PPTs. I will definitely be calling ahead of time from now on.

[cbaer5]

turners made me buy one but it was like 6 bucks so rather than get into an argument i just bought the lock but its so they can make money they might as well get something for their time

[BannedinBritain]

Thanks for all the info guys! I usually go to my local gun shop to do PPTs and they always accept the lock that the pistol comes with. But I had to meet up with a fellow calgunner to do a PPT at a shop recently in a different city and they charged me a extra 20 dollars with my dros fee for a extra lock. They said that I had to buy another lock even though the firearm came with a lock from the factory when it came to PPTs. I will definitely be calling ahead of time from now on.

$20 for a lock is ridiculous...unless it's a specialty lock on a firearm where a regular cable lock wont work. If you paid that amount for a cable lock, the store in question robbed you in my opinion.

[krazyk626]

$20 for a lock is ridiculous...unless it's a specialty lock on a firearm where a regular cable lock wont work. If you paid that amount for a cable lock, the store in question robbed you in my opinion.

Yeah tell me about it. It was a small local gun shop so I understand that at the end of the day they need to run a business also. I would have just preferred that they tell me they need to charge a transfer fee then up sell me a cable lock. Oh well, don't want to turn this into a store policy trashing thread. At least now I can act like im back at MCRD and have my new pistol double locked and on safe.

[kemasa]

You could return the lock. Also, you might want to contact the CA DOJ to complain since that is basically charging an additional fee since there was already a lock which was acceptable.

[bkc56]

I was at my local Big 5 Sporting Goods shop yesterday checking on the PPT fee ($10 + $25 paperwork) and asked about a lock. They said I could fill out the affidavit for a gun safe at home and that would suffice (I've seen the form on the Calif web-site).

If I end up doing a PPT, I'll bring a filled out affidavit, a lock (wouldn't satisfy the 30-day rule) and be prepared to buy one if forced to. Hope for the best.

[Bigtwin]

Just remember the safe affidavid is only good for long guns not pistols like the OP is looking to buy.

[kemasa]

You need a lock for the Feds for a handgun, but you don't need a receipt. If you go the lock route for CA, you need a receipt within the last 30 days. So, a lock without a receipt and the safe affidavit might cover both the Feds and CA. The reason I say might is because it has not been written up, as required, and the BATF attorney I talked to said that the FFL had to provide the lock (which my reading of the law does not require).

[tenpercentfirearms]

You need a lock for the Feds for a handgun, but you don't need a receipt. If you go the lock route for CA, you need a receipt within the last 30 days. So, a lock without a receipt and the safe affidavit might cover both the Feds and CA. The reason I say might is because it has not been written up, as required, and the BATF attorney I talked to said that the FFL had to provide the lock (which my reading of the law does not require).

Good thinking, but any FFL that would do this should be smart enough to realize no receipt is needed. On any transfer if there is a lock with the gun, then no receipt is needed. Remember E is just a way to exempt you from A. If the gun has a lock, then you don't need a receipt. I as a dealer can give anyone a lock with their gun, even if you bring me in a different lock on the same day and you just give me the lock. I'll use it on another transaction another day.

[kemasa]

Yes, IF the firearm comes with a lock that is certified, then everything is fine. That response was in reply to post #11, in which it mentioned that he was going to bring a lock, not that a lock was included.