FFL Question: Is the Buyer at risk

[captvalk]

Here is the situation as I understand it. Husband has gun registered in his name. Husband has been told by DOJ to get rid of all his handguns -- not sure what the offence was. Husband has authorized wife to sell to Buyer. Buyer has agreed to meet wife at FFL for the transfer.
1. Can wife legally sell handgun to Buyer, assuming Husband gave her authority?
2. Any risk that the transfer will be denied because the Seller Husband is somehow not allowed to sell guns.
3. How does Buyer minimize risk of paying for a gun that he may not be allowed to have.

BTW: the gun is on the approved CaDOJ list; would it make any difference if it wasn't on the list?

[jtmkinsd]

If he has been directed to dispose of his firearms, then he can take them to his FFL to PPT them. There is no need to involve the wife. In fact, he could "transfer" all the firearms to his wife, as long as they are kept in a safe which he has no access to. There is no FFL required for this option, as handgun transfers between spouses only need to be reported by Intrafamilial handgun transfer form.

[halifax]

If he is not the subject of a protective order he can give any non-prohibited person (e.g., his wife) a 30-day Power of Attorney to transfer the firearms through an FFL.

Prohibited Persons Notice Form and Power of Attorney for Firearms Transfer and Disposal

[jtmkinsd]

The court might demand they be brought to an FFL...but in the end, he can still just transfer them to his wife...In a case in which it's not a DV protective order (I'm assuming it is not in this case), it's much easier to "dispose" of the firearms to the spouse.

[halifax]

The court might demand they be brought to an FFL...but in the end, he can still just transfer them to his wife...In a case in which it's not a DV protective order (I'm assuming it is not in this case), it's much easier to "dispose" of the firearms to the spouse.

I'm not sure that would fly if the court asks for proof of lawful disposal since the law says FFL for sale/transfer or LE. But hey, I'm no lawyer.

[jtmkinsd]

I'm not sure that would fly if the court asks for proof of lawful disposal since the law says FFL for sale/transfer or LE. But hey, I'm no lawyer.

These kinds of transactions are surprisingly more and more common. I get at least a call a month...Usually the buyer (PPT) is a relative. To satisfy the letter of the law, the "sale" is synonymous with transfer...at least that's what has satisfied the courts.

[captvalk]

Thanks all for the information. Very helpful.

[Harley Quinn]

If he has been told to get rid of them, why can't he sell them outright
Go to an FFL have him take possession and sell them, for him...Why put the wife in harms way

[halifax]

These kinds of transactions are surprisingly more and more common. I get at least a call a month...Usually the buyer (PPT) is a relative. To satisfy the letter of the law, the "sale" is synonymous with transfer...at least that's what has satisfied the courts.

Yes, a PPT works in this situation. It was the non-FFL transfer to the wife that I was questioning. No papertrail to show the judge.

[CharlesV]

May i divert for a second, reading the law above, may a gun owner not in any trouble give the police guns for storage?

(I question the wisdom of this since confiscation is frequently on peoples minds but im still asking)

[halifax]

May i divert for a second, reading the law above, may a gun owner not in any trouble give the police guns for storage?

(I question the wisdom of this since confiscation is frequently on peoples minds but im still asking)

I'd suspect so but you are risking destruction. Some departments only keep them for 90 days (?) before they are melted down. Develope a clear understanding with the department before doing any such thing.

[CharlesV]

I think there is a thread to "ask a cop" but it looks like unless there is a program for actual safekeeping, a community gun safe, there are too many chances for misunderstandings leading straight to loss of precious weapons.

[SVT-40]

May i divert for a second, reading the law above, may a gun owner not in any trouble give the police guns for storage?

(I question the wisdom of this since confiscation is frequently on peoples minds but im still asking)

In most cases no. The police do seize some firearms or take them for safekeeping. However there would be no operation under law to cover "storage". Most police property rooms are crowded enough with all sorts of evidence. "Storing" firearms would not make sense for that reason alone.

Besides even if you were allowed to "store" your firearms at the local PD, when you wanted to get them back you would have to submit a LEGR (Law Enforcement Gun Release to the Calif DOJ, pay a fee and wait for approval (usually about a month) before the firearms could be released to you.

[jtmkinsd]

In most cases no. The police do seize some firearms or take them for safekeeping. However there would be no operation under law to cover "storage". Most police property rooms are crowded enough with all sorts of evidence. "Storing" firearms would not make sense for that reason alone.

Besides even if you were allowed to "store" your firearms at the local PD, when you wanted to get them back you would have to submit a LEGR (Law Enforcement Gun Release to the Calif DOJ, pay a fee and wait for approval (usually about a month) before the firearms could be released to you.

^^This

LE has better things to do...it's usually best to keep firearms out of the hands of law enforcement...it just adds hassle.

[CharlesV]

Ok then how about private community storage? A safe-deposit box type of facility. Its getting unsafe the way people are storing guns. Robbers figure the average house has 4-5 weapons now and with most of them not normally seeing the light of day anyway, it would make sense to store them elsewhere under much higher protection. It would also absolve an owner from to figure out the best ways and places for storage which is not unlimited.

In 1978 a bad thing happened. I kept a gun under my pillow, i was robbed, they found it, they used it in violent crime. Seven years later i got a call from LE, they asked if i owned that gun, they returned it in very beat-up condition. Turns out that after the gun was used in crime and the criminals caught, the gun went missing from the evidence room and was used and very abused by someone in LE until they had their fill. They snuck the gun back to evidence where it was promptly discovered in an audit and then returned to me. Though i sent the gun for renovation it had so many layers of bad vibes on it i had to sell it.

Point is that a bad moment can turn things upside down so it pays to consider new ways to store and hide weapons like you never had to try before because things are not nice like they were 30 years ago.