FFL Question about sales

[jtmkinsd]

Just for arguments sake...let's look at this...

except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,
(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and
(C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

And section (b)(3):

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has
reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a
place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of
business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not
apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a
resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's
place of business is located if the transferee meets in person
with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale,
delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of
sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer
or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph,
in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual
knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both
States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;

So I ask again...for "sporting purposes" would my scenario be illegal?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

The (b)(3)(B) exemption only applies if the lender is an FFL. Even then, it only applies to temporary loans. The (a)(5)(B) exemption applies if the lender is not an FFL, but it is also only applies to temporary loans.

[jtmkinsd]

The (b)(3)(B) exemption only applies if the lender is an FFL. Even then, it only applies to temporary loans. The (a)(5)(B) exemption applies if the lender is not an FFL, but it is also only applies to temporary loans.

I don't see the relevence of the "temporary loan"...is it that the loan must be returned before ownership can be transferred? If that's the case, I'm not seeing anything in the GCA or CFR that states this?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I don't see the relevence of the "temporary loan"...is it that the loan must be returned before ownership can be transferred? If that's the case, I'm not seeing anything in the GCA or CFR that states this?

It's that at some point the loan would end and a transfer would happen. The transfer is illegal. And unless the lender is an FFL the son would not be allowed to transport a loaned firearm back into California anyway.

If you are not an FFL and you loan your son a firearm it is illegal for him to return to California with it, even if it is a loan for sporting purposes.

If you are an FFL and you loan your son a firearm in the way you describe you will eventually have to log it out to him and do the NICS check. As an Arizona FFL you can't do this if he is from California.

[Librarian]

I don't see the relevence of the "temporary loan"...is it that the loan must be returned before ownership can be transferred? If that's the case, I'm not seeing anything in the GCA or CFR that states this?

If it isn't returned, then the transfer really took place at the time of the loan - the loan was, arguably, a sham; even if the mental states were actually as you posited, 'loan then decide to gift', how would you establish that? More obvious to an external observer if it's done in two distinct steps.

[jtmkinsd]

It's that at some point the loan would end and a transfer would happen. The transfer is illegal. And unless the lender is an FFL the son would not be allowed to transport a loaned firearm back into California anyway.

If you are not an FFL and you loan your son a firearm it is illegal for him to return to California with it, even if it is a loan for sporting purposes.

If you are an FFL and you loan your son a firearm in the way you describe you will eventually have to log it out to him and do the NICS check. As an Arizona FFL you can't do this if he is from California.

If it isn't returned, then the transfer really took place at the time of the loan - the loan was, arguably, a sham; even if the mental states were actually as you posited, 'loan then decide to gift', how would you establish that? More obvious to an external observer if it's done in two distinct steps.

I see and appreciate the points...I thank you both