ATF is here.

[nick]

Rule # 1 in dealing with bureaucracy. Perception is reality. News article makes it appear that there is a problem. Visit by field agents and emergency legislation is an attempt to effect perception that ATF and DOJ are providing a solution. Our government spends a lot of time providing solutions to non-existent problems. Rule # 2. Never let the perception of a crisis go to waste.

Once you review the rules, the outcome is easily apparent.

Exactly.

[21SF]

It doesn't really matter if some of their firearms were found in MEXICO as long as they did their paperwork correctly and followed all regulations. After the firearm is sold the FFL has no control where it goes. The alternative is to stop selling to anyone that they think is of Mexican decent.

Racist Much?!!!

[paul0660]

Racist Much?!!!

21sf, turn your sarcasm meter on.

[lazyworm]

Just call in every firearms purchase and overload them .

Funny until you think like a bureaucrat. High call volume = need bigger
budget to hire more underlings to answer calls and push papers and more
managers to manage the new underlings. There goes more of my money
to taxes.

Don't do it.

[DNA]

So, of all the guns that were traced (fraction of those confiscated), less than 1/5 of 1 percent were from this store, so that's a problem? really? We're talking 99.79311% of the other guns came from other locations... wow.

Dan

[Soldier415]

And it begins...

[Mike's Custom]

Racist Much?!!!

Nope, not at all. But, back when I was doing guns shows all over central and southern CA I was informed by the ATF that as a FFL I could refuese to sell firearms to anyone for any reason. Fresno has a large MONG population and the FPD and ATF didn't want them buying firearms. I was told what to look for as far as gang tattoos and colors and asked to not sell to them. I didn't. So during all this I asked about what would happen if I didn't sell to black people or any race including white that are most likely to commit crimes. I was told by ATF that I could do that and it would not be discrimination. So if the guns traced back to the US FFLs turn out to be purchased by Americans of Mexican decent then that store could refuse to sell to anyone of that decent. A FFL can refuse to sell a firearm to someone for a joke or statement they MAY be suspicious of.

One thing it seems out idiot government officials seem to forget is, if htey can bring in tons of illegal drugs and millions of illegal people how hard is it to throw in a few weapons along with them. Penalizing a FFL because he followed the law to the letter (like there is any other way for a FFL to follow)
and had some firearms end up in another country is like blaming a car dealership because a car he sold ended up in another country. The FFL has no control over what happens to a sell after it leaves his hands.

[Table Rock Arms]

What was the outcome of this?

[jtmkinsd]

What was the outcome of this?

Still waiting....Have to wait till he comes back on

[kermitz]

Western Firearms, Bell CA?
Does this have anything to do with the reports of a large percentage of firearms sold at your shop finding thier way to Mexico?

This was my attempt at being sarcastic twords the media reports which portray the US as mexico's largest gun supplier. I believe that a majority of the guns in mexico come from governments from all over South America.

[kermit315]

No form. Nothing official, just red flag signs like if a person purchases 3 or more of a single type rifle i.e. ar type, to call it in.

And, what if you decide to not call it in?

[Cokebottle]

Looks like they are going to want to enforce multiple long gun purchases.

In what respect? Adding a long gun to the DROS at or near the end of a 10 day wait? Reporting of purchasing more than one gun within 5 days?

I wasn't aware of anything special related to multiple long gun sales. The issue of adding a long gun to an existing DROS has been quite the topic of discussion with disagreements between established and respected Calguns-friendly FFLs, almost as bad as mentioning "Downwind turn" on a general aviation forum

[Cokebottle]

Or they stole those guns from someone who bought it at this store initially, or from someone who bought it from someone who bought it at this gun store, and so on.

That is the result of the 4473 system.
Gun is recovered, first step is to find out what dealer it was shipped to.
Unless it's a handgun, every future transfer requires a phone call or visit to the next owner in line.
I buy a new gun from WFA, then I sell it to a friend through Riflegear, then he sells it to someone else through Turner's, then he sells it to someone else through somewhere else. That buyer then gifts it to his grandson, who then sells it to someone else, etc..... Eventually it is stolen and turns up in Mexico.
ATF/DOJ contact WFA and get my information. They then contact me.
I waive my 5A rights and tell them who I sold it to and where. They then contact him, and so on.
All it takes is one private citizen to assert their 5A rights or claim the gun was stolen and they are either forced to get a warrant, or the trail goes cold.

Handguns make it a little easier (in states that require registration) because they can at least go directly to the last registered owner, but again, if he asserts his 5A rights or claims the gun was stolen, the trail goes dead and they don't likely have enough evidence to pin down the exporter.

[Cokebottle]

And, what if you decide to not call it in?

My thoughts exactly.
Underground legislation.
I haven't seen anything in the PC or USC that says "The law is anything a BATFE/DOJ agent says it is."

[ke6guj]

In what respect? Adding a long gun to the DROS at or near the end of a 10 day wait? Reporting of purchasing more than one gun within 5 days?

I wasn't aware of anything special related to multiple long gun sales. The issue of adding a long gun to an existing DROS has been quite the topic of discussion with disagreements between established and respected Calguns-friendly FFLs, almost as bad as mentioning "Downwind turn" on a general aviation forum

sounds like they are trying to force this on them, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=multiple