Questions about 07FFL

[Table Rock Arms]

Don't forget that 07's are subject to ITAR.

He is looking to make ammo so he would be paying it either way.

[Table Rock Arms]

The problem is when you start to cross the line between manufacturing and just selling the firearms. Certain modifications may or may not be considered "manufacturing" so just to be safe I wanted to cover all my bases.

Just remember, that when it is considered manufacturing then you are supposed to mark the gun with your business name, city, and state.

[ke6guj]

Just remember, that when it is considered manufacturing then you are supposed to mark the gun with your business name, city, and state.

which is assinine. I could see a gun getting "re-manufactured" a couple times during its lifetime, per ATF's definitin, and end up with 3+ names marked on the gun. At that point, which name gets entered into the DROS system? which name gets entered into the bound book?

This ATF rule is gonna get complicated in the future.

I'll give an example, Group Industries made "UZI" receivers in the 80s. Vector arms bought the 100% receiver shells and welded in the rest of the receiver parts. They marked their name on it. If another 07FFL bought those completed receivers from Vector and then built them up as semi-auto rifles or pistols, they'd need to mark their name on it as well. SO, now, you have 3 names marked on it. If you are a down-stream FFL, who's name do you use as the manufacturer of the firearm?

[Table Rock Arms]

which is assinine. I could see a gun getting "re-manufactured" a couple times during its lifetime, per ATF's definitin, and end up with 3+ names marked on the gun. At that point, which name gets entered into the DROS system? which name gets entered into the bound book?

This ATF rule is gonna get complicated in the future.

I'll give an example, Group Industries made "UZI" receivers in the 80s. Vector arms bought the 100% receiver shells and welded in the rest of the receiver parts. They marked their name on it. If another 07FFL bought those completed receivers from Vector and then built them up as semi-auto rifles or pistols, they'd need to mark their name on it as well. SO, now, you have 3 names marked on it. If you are a down-stream FFL, who's name do you use as the manufacturer of the firearm?

Yeah, I agree it is ridiculous. Manufacturer of the firearm, would technically be the last manufacturer to modify the firearm.

[guns4life]

Yeah, I agree it is ridiculous. Manufacturer of the firearm, would technically be the last manufacturer to modify the firearm.

Speaking of, I wonder if you could destroy the previous mfg markings and end up with just yours?

I'm not saying it's efficient, but I wonder if it's "legal"?

[jtmkinsd]

Speaking of, I wonder if you could destroy the previous mfg markings and end up with just yours?

I'm not saying it's efficient, but I wonder if it's "legal"?

For Federal law:

On NFA firearms the markings cannot be removed or altered. On non-NFA firearms while you cannot remove or alter the serial number, manufacturing marks are not restricted as such.

However, in good ole CA:

PC 12090

Any person who changes, alters, removes or obliterates the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice on any pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, without first having secured written permission from the department to make such change, alteration or removal shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison. (this is a "go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200" statement)

AND this:

PC 12094

(a) Any person with knowledge of any change, alteration, removal, or obliteration described herein, who buys, receives, disposes of, sells, offers for sale, or has in his or her possession any pistol, revolver, or other firearm which has had the name of the maker, model, or the manufacturer's number or other mark of identification including any distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice changed, altered, removed, or obliterated is guilty of a misdemeanor.

[ke6guj]

so does that mean that it would be against CA law to replace a manufacturer-marked barrel with an unmarked barrel? Would seem so.

[ke6guj]

Yeah, I agree it is ridiculous. Manufacturer of the firearm, would technically be the last manufacturer to modify the firearm.

I would agree, but if you were an FFL who was doing a PPT for one, how would you know who the actual manufacturer was? Most people would probably just mark it as a Group Industries gun. Or how bout a custom 1911 built on a Colt frame. Even though it might be marked with the gunsmith's info if he built it up for sale (instead of done as a job for a customer), I'd bet that 90+% of all FFLs would just log it in as a Colt.

[jtmkinsd]

so does that mean that it would be against CA law to replace a manufacturer-marked barrel with an unmarked barrel? Would seem so.

Well it does say "firearm" so I'm guessing the ancillary parts are not covered by the restriction.

[Table Rock Arms]

I would agree, but if you were an FFL who was doing a PPT for one, how would you know who the actual manufacturer was? Most people would probably just mark it as a Group Industries gun. Or how bout a custom 1911 built on a Colt frame. Even though it might be marked with the gunsmith's info if he built it up for sale (instead of done as a job for a customer), I'd bet that 90+% of all FFLs would just log it in as a Colt.

If the gun is built up for sale then it would not be gunsmithing but rather manufacuring which would require an 07 FFL. As for what gun to log it in as, you are probably right that most would log it in as a Colt. I think it is suposed to be logged in as the manufacturer who built it up though.