Questions about 07FFL

[IrishPirate]

1) 07FFL is the one needed to manufacture ammo for sale right?

2) 07FFL allows you to manufacture/import hi-caps for sale to authorized individuals right?

2.5) assuming #2 is true, what would happen if you manufactured/imported a few cases of hi-caps and then went out of business? Would you have to destroy them or get rid of them somehow? or would they just be your own property now?

3) Do you also need an 01FFL to sell the guns you manufacture, or will just the 07FFL suffice?

4) It seems like the answer to #3 is no because I can manufacture as many guns for personal use as I want, and then I need an 01FFL to sell them later on, so why would they make an 07FFL for manufacturing for sale if you couldn't use it to sell your guns?

5) When manufacturing for personal use, 80% is the most ammount of work that can be done by someone else correct? If i were to get a block of metal and machine a receiver or frame 100% by myself, that would be legit too right??? (obviously expensive, just wondering about legality)

[GoingQuiet]

1. NO. Manufacturing ammo has its own license type. 07 is firearm manufacturing as well as ammunition.

2. Beats me, ask a Californian.

3. No.

4. ATF is very clear about who can do manufacturing on your behalf, if you are utilizing the services of another 07, you can request a variance that allows them to do work on your behalf without them having to put their name on it.

[ke6guj]

1) 07FFL is the one needed to manufacture ammo for sale right?

an 06FFL or an 07FFL will allow you to manufacture ammo for sale.

2) 07FFL allows you to manufacture/import hi-caps for sale to authorized individuals right?

2.5) assuming #2 is true, what would happen if you manufactured/imported a few cases of hi-caps and then went out of business? Would you have to destroy them or get rid of them somehow? or would they just be your own property now?

this is the manufacturing exemptions,

12020(b)(30)(A) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
(C) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for export or for sale to government agencies or the military pursuant to applicable federal regulations.

3) Do you also need an 01FFL to sell the guns you manufacture, or will just the 07FFL suffice?

the 07FFL allows you to sell as well as manufacture, no need for an additional 01FFL.

4) It seems like the answer to #3 is no because I can manufacture as many guns for personal use as I want, and then I need an 01FFL to sell them later on, so why would they make an 07FFL for manufacturing for sale if you couldn't use it to sell your guns?

you don't need an 01FFL to sell your homebuilt firearms if you later decide to sell them.

5) When manufacturing for personal use, 80% is the most ammount of work that can be done by someone else correct? If i were to get a block of metal and machine a receiver or frame 100% by myself, that would be legit too right??? (obviously expensive, just wondering about legality)

correct.

[IrishPirate]

Yeah i saw all the exemptions too, but does that mean that they have to pay for them ahead of time and then you build/import them? OR, can you have a stock of them on hand and advertise them for sale to exempted persons? AND should you no longer decide to be in business, what happens to any hi-caps you have in stock???

[jtmkinsd]

Yeah i saw all the exemptions too, but does that mean that they have to pay for them ahead of time and then you build/import them? OR, can you have a stock of them on hand and advertise them for sale to exempted persons? AND should you no longer decide to be in business, what happens to any hi-caps you have in stock???

You can make a warehouse full of them...but can only sell them to the entities/persons listed in the exemptions.

[guns4life]

It's not worth it if you're thinking about getting one "real quick" for whatever reason. I can tell you first hand it's a long(and costly) process...one I just started. By the time it's all said and done there will be a few thousand dollars in fees and up to nine months of down time. Not to mention the costs of everything else you need to have in place prior to inspection. You're dealing with the state, federal, and local governments for the 07.

[JeffM]

Large Capacity Magazine permits are available to 01 and 07 FFLs. They are not firearms and are not regulated by BATFE, only CA DOJ. If the licensee closes up shop, he can keep the magazines because he acquired them legally. There is no requirement to surrender/get rid of them.

"80%" is a made up number that has been coined to describe the closest an item can be to a firearm while not actually becoming one. The BATFE rules on a case-by-case basis whether an item is a firearm or is not.

[IrishPirate]

It's not worth it if you're thinking about getting one "real quick" for whatever reason. I can tell you first hand it's a long(and costly) process...one I just started. By the time it's all said and done there will be a few thousand dollars in fees and up to nine months of down time. Not to mention the costs of everything else you need to have in place prior to inspection. You're dealing with the state, federal, and local governments for the 07.

not looking for anything "real quick"...i'm getting into reloading right now and was just looking at all my options. weighing the costs and benefits, plus all the legalities. Wouldn't want to have crates of hi-caps that i can't use or sell if i decide that the business isn't working out....

Large Capacity Magazine permits are available to 01 and 07 FFLs. They are not firearms and are not regulated by BATFE, only CA DOJ. If the licensee closes up shop, he can keep the magazines because he acquired them legally. There is no requirement to surrender/get rid of them.

"80%" is a made up number that has been coined to describe the closest an item can be to a firearm while not actually becoming one. The BATFE rules on a case-by-case basis whether an item is a firearm or is not.

awesome, thanks

[guns4life]

not looking for anything "real quick"...i'm getting into reloading right now and was just looking at all my options. weighing the costs and benefits, plus all the legalities. Wouldn't want to have crates of hi-caps that i can't use or sell if i decide that the business isn't working out....



awesome, thanks

Gotcha, I was referring to the 07 specifically as It(07) seems to be a little more difficult to get than an 01 or 06 from what I've seen so far. There are aspects of the 07 that I need or else I would just have gone for the 06 as my primary goal is MFG ammo.

[IrishPirate]

Is there a place on the DOJ website that lays out what each of the FFL's are? not just a general one, but something a little more specific? i can't find anything

[ke6guj]

wikipedia has a nice breakdown on all the different FFL types,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License#Federal_Firearms_License_types

anymore than that and you'd have to dig through the laws and regs at www.atf.gov to find it. CADOJ is probably not gonna explain out the FFL types since FFLs are a federal matter.

[guns4life]

Here are some more regs for you to check thru, in case you have not come across them yet...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12085.php

[IrishPirate]

wikipedia has a nice breakdown on all the different FFL types,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License#Federal_Firearms_License_types

anymore than that and you'd have to dig through the laws and regs at www.atf.gov to find it. CADOJ is probably not gonna explain out the FFL types since FFLs are a federal matter.

not sure why that wasn't so obvious before........thanks!

Here are some more regs for you to check thru, in case you have not come across them yet...


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12085.php

i appreciate the help guys.....really!!!


So basically the 07FFL is the same as the 01FFL but you have a license to manufacture ammo.....basically like a combined 01FFL and 06FFL correct? That's the gist that i got...Seems like it would be a good idea if i also wanted to do PPT and special orders as an 01FFL. Would there be any other benefit to an 07FFL for someone just thinking about running a small home business, other than the ammo manufacturing and PPT/Special Order combo? I know you can manufacture guns for sale too but I don't think i'd really be all that into doing that at this point in time.

[GoingQuiet]

Don't forget that 07's are subject to ITAR.

[guns4life]

not sure why that wasn't so obvious before........thanks!



i appreciate the help guys.....really!!!


So basically the 07FFL is the same as the 01FFL but you have a license to manufacture ammo.....basically like a combined 01FFL and 06FFL correct? That's the gist that i got...Seems like it would be a good idea if i also wanted to do PPT and special orders as an 01FFL. Would there be any other benefit to an 07FFL for someone just thinking about running a small home business, other than the ammo manufacturing and PPT/Special Order combo? I know you can manufacture guns for sale too but I don't think i'd really be all that into doing that at this point in time.

The problem is when you start to cross the line between manufacturing and just selling the firearms. Certain modifications may or may not be considered "manufacturing" so just to be safe I wanted to cover all my bases.