So. Cal./OC Gun Store Refusing to Release Handgun

[Splinter]

Tenpercent. In my business experience I have eaten the customer’s bill many times. Even if they are completely wrong, I opened my own wallet to make them happy. If something such as a serial number mix-up is such a common occurrence. How about the FFL take 2 seconds and ask the customer to verify you entered it correctly. If I couldn’t enter a few numbers/letters correctly, I would be sued out of house and home. Why can’t I trust an FFL to do the same? No matter how idiotic the customer is, you as the FFL will be looked at as responsible for any mix-ups. You do these transactions all day long. The normal customer maybe does half a dozen in their life, and not all in CA. Yet, you repeatedly say they should know better? A good business owner assumes every customer is an idiot that requires their hand held from hello to goodbye. I wouldn’t last a week without being out of business if I didn’t check, recheck, and ask the client to verify everything before submitting. I can only recomend you change your vibe/responses to threads like this. Not everyone on here knows you. From your responses I would run for the hills if I didnt know from experiance you were one of the good guys.

[imtheomegaman]

I'm kind of confused on why they're even selling guns when they don't understand the laws around them.

that's the whole point, the laws are so ambiguous and erratically enforced it's tough to know which way is up

[tenpercentfirearms]

I am just playing devil's advocate. If you come on here harping about how stupid a dealer is, make sure itis legit and that you didn't have anything to do with it. In theory, a customer who sings a DROS that shows a serial number had just as much of a chance to double check the serial number as a dealer.

Personally, it is my responsibility and I will take responsibility for it. I agree, most customers don't know what in the heck they are doing and they rely on me to be the expert.

What business are you in where if you can't do a few serial numbers right you woudl be sued out of house and home? That sounds pretty high risk.

This is the FFL forums. I am going to play devils advocate. Hopefully it makes the Calgunner a smarter consumer. If a few guys get bent out of shape from reading my responses, no big deal. They tend to be the guys who live no where near me and would never have been my customers anyway.

Back to the OP, good job! I am glad you got that sorted out. Let us know how it goes in the end.

[stitchnicklas]

sorry 10% ,but it is 100% not my fault when a douchebag gunshop screws up the model number,the papers i had were correct,the papers i went to the store and retrieved were the ones that showed where the problem was. yes i always get the dros but some shops only give it to me at the end of the transaction.

just a hint: bashing future/current/past customers intellect is not a smooth way of business,blaming a customer for the employees screwup is a bad thing to do also.your devils advocate position is not endearing you to others either..

glad i live in the i.e. and have a good gunshop to deal with now a days.

[hill billy]

sorry 10% ,but it is 100% not my fault when a douchebag gunshop screws up the model number,the papers i had were correct,the papers i went to the store and retrieved were the ones that showed where the problem was. yes i always get the dros but some shops only give it to me at the end of the transaction.

just a hint: bashing future/current/past customers intellect is not a smooth way of business,blaming a customer for the employees screwup is a bad thing to do also.your devils advocate position is not endearing you to others either..

glad i live in the i.e. and have a good gunshop to deal with now a days.

What you're not getting is that this isn't necessarily the shop's fault either. Look at what you had to go through to get an answer. What makes you think a gun shop has it any easier when trying to decipher the stupid laws in this state?

[sd_shooter]

Why not ask the FFL what they are going to do with your COE before you start the DROS? Then you wouldn't be in this pickle to begin with.

Now that you're in it, why not just wait it out?

A certain well respected FFL here in San Diego won't "play ball" with the COE+C&R rule either. He won't let you get two guns within 30 days. But I like him, so I don't care. If I were in a hurry, I'd go somewhere else.

[tenpercentfirearms]

sorry 10% ,but it is 100% not my fault when a douchebag gunshop screws up the model number,the papers i had were correct,the papers i went to the store and retrieved were the ones that showed where the problem was. yes i always get the dros but some shops only give it to me at the end of the transaction.

just a hint: bashing future/current/past customers intellect is not a smooth way of business,blaming a customer for the employees screwup is a bad thing to do also.your devils advocate position is not endearing you to others either.

It goes both ways. When describing gun shops as douche bags and giving me "just a hint", you sound like an arrogant know it all. The fact still remains that you signed a DROS at start that showed the incorrect serial number. You did not catch it. That makes the gun shop douche bags, but you are A OK?

You did make a mistake. You didn't closely check your DROS and it caused you heartache. A wise customer always checks his DROS for accuracy of information. Douchebag customers don't check, get held up, and then blame everyone else.

Again, I am just screwing with you now. Is it going to cost me any business? I highly doubt it. It always makes guys like you feel better because you will swear not to do any business with me and you will feel better about yourself for being such a smart guy to have weeded me out. Again, you were never going to do business with me anyway. Everyone else that is reading this has figured out one of two things.

They realize I am just messing with you because you are quick to throw out names and act superior when you are just as guilty, in this case, they find all of this quite entertaining. Or they don't realize I am screwing with you and they now vow to never drive hundreds of miles to see me either.

Again, despite my toying with you, I believe a dealer should be responsible for making sure the customer has a good experience. That means taking care of customers when you make a mistake. I have done this a lot of times. It usually ends up being a positive for the customer because after a slight delay or even a long one, they get goodies at a hell of a deal. I don't sweat stuff like that as it is just the cost of doing business. Live and learn.

[dachan]

10%, I take it you'd be okay with everyone of your customers taking an additional two or three minutes to verify the DROS information was correctly entered as insurance against poor employee performance. Keep in mind this means they will need to have access to the firearm, be able to find the s/n, make, model, etc. Infamiliarity with the the DROS form may also slow down this check. Let's say you do 600 handgun transfers a year, that'll only be an extra 20 to 30 hrs (1200-1800minutes) spent DROS'ing every year. Reasonable? Maybe. Also will your clerks have the patience for each customer to check their worK? Hopefully.

[stitchnicklas]

well 10%,i never said i would never do business with you,i live way to far from taft and the gunshop i am refering to as a douchebag shop is in riverside.there are only 4-5 shops here and bullseye sports,turners,riverside gun,jwguns,annies are not the douche's.

there is a local shop that those in riverside will notice is missing and is the douchebag.

[tenpercentfirearms]

10%, I take it you'd be okay with everyone of your customers taking an additional two or three minutes to verify the DROS information was correctly entered as insurance against poor employee performance. Keep in mind this means they will need to have access to the firearm, be able to find the s/n, make, model, etc. Infamiliarity with the the DROS form may also slow down this check. Let's say you do 600 handgun transfers a year, that'll only be an extra 20 to 30 hrs (1200-1800minutes) spent DROS'ing every year. Reasonable? Maybe. Also will your clerks have the patience for each customer to check their worK? Hopefully.

If that is what you as the customer wants to do, not a problem. It is not unheard of at all for customers to spend one to two hours getting individualized attention in my shop. That is what we do.

So if a customer wants to spend some time reading the DROS, I have zero problems with that. I can always multi-task why they are doing that if it is that big of a deal.

Hey, let's just kiss and make up everyone. Our main goal here is to get the OP his gun and that is working. Yes, we all know or have experienced horror stories of DB gun shops. Let's save it for another thread.

[beemaze]

Another followup

A couple of hours after my last post, the manager of Field Time called me up and said he received a call from the BofF agent I spoke with saying there was a misunderstanding about the initial information they had received and that my exemption did apply to a modern handgun. And that I could come pick up my handgun. So it's all good news so far. Haven't made it to the store, hopefully later this week.

After reading some of the discussion here, here are a few of my thoughts:

• 1

Although name calling and ranting and raving make some feel better, it's counterproductive when dealing with someone at a gunstore or the B of F/CA DOJ. I must note that even though there were disagreements initially, I was extremely polite throughout and thankful. I told them it's nothing personal, just all business. At the end of the day, I told all parties involved how much I truly appreciated their help and I think they appreciated that too. "An armed society is a polite society!"

• 2

We are dealing with an ever expanding bureaucracy that really can be clueless at times. We have a bunch of crappy laws on the books, written by crappy legislator (lawyers) who deserve to be voted out of office. I seriously doubt anyone who wrote these laws and anyone at the B of F that I spoke with has even purchased a firearm in their lifetime. Even when confronted with the written law in plain English, words were used like "assumption" and "intent" when I spoke with the agents. Very scary. They are not lawyers and should not have to interpret law for themselves. Any reasonable person would see the exemption applies to any handgun (legal for sale in CA).

• 3

I would have hoped the gun store could have stepped up to the plate when it came to dealing with the CA DOJ. Instead, I had to spend almost 3 hours in order to get what I wanted from the DOJ and Field Time. I call it lack of leadership and/or lack of customer service on the part of Field Time. I have worked with many a gun store in So. Cal, and the ones I give repeat business to don't know it all either, but when they don't know, they make the EXTRA effort to get to the bottom of things for their customers. I too run a business that is subject to city and state inspectors on a yearly basis; I make it a point to know the laws as best as possible, and if not, I seek counsel, legal or otherwise. Yes, in my business, not crossing t's or dotting i's, and not filling out logs and forms and endless paperwork correctly and in a timely manner can result in instant closure and/or nonpayment. I have multiple employees as part of my machine to deal with this bureaucracy of ours. It sucks, but you do what you have to do to keep customers and the government happy.

• 4

I see alot of discussion here some of which I agree with, and some I disagree with. Either way, I think we can all agree to disagree with one another, but keep this in mind: We are all in it together. We can't just blame one individual or institution for what goes wrong. But we can try and make a change. So, let's get out there and vote the antigunners out.

United we stand, divided we fall.

[aratron]

United we stand, divided we fall.

Second that, bro.

[beb1954]

God, how I love this state (of confusion).

[stitchnicklas]

gun released yet??

[beemaze]

gun released yet??

Picked it up today! Received an apology as well. A lot of effort for one gun, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do!