So. Cal./OC Gun Store Refusing to Release Handgun

[Packy14]

i digress.

[RollingCode3]

Two shops I won't be visiting or ever spending my cash @:
1) field time
2) tenpercent

I'll keep taking my business to riflegear where they know what they are doing and treat their customers well... since, well, thats how you survive in business. The law is the law, and if you don't know it, stop running a freakin gun store!! I shouldn't have to teach you the damn law, you should be able to teach me, or stop being a freakin ffl and let someone who knows what the hell they are doing do it. Get your $$ back through your credit card and shake the dust off your shoes at the door.

[dachan]

I think you guys are being overly harsh. If you expect every gun dealer to know all of the gun laws in this state, I expect every customer to know ever gun law in this state. If you come into my shop and ask a stupid question, I am going to take a picture of you, get your name, and post it all over Calguns what a buffoon you are and how you should pay me money for your stupidity.

Two shops I won't be visiting or ever spending my cash @:
1) field time
2) tenpercent

10%, got to disagree with you here. I wouldn't take it to the level 2007 is advocating, but it is absolutely a dealer's responsibility to know the law; we're the professionals here. And if you know the DOJ often gives incorrect information, then use additional or backup sources. In this case Field Time is dead wrong and the OP is trying to gently educate them. We can't always go by the adage "the customer is always right", but in this case he is and the shop won't listen.

[stitchnicklas]

Two shops I won't be visiting or ever spending my cash @:
1) field time
2) tenpercent

I'll keep taking my business to riflegear where they know what they are doing and treat their customers well... since, well, thats how you survive in business. The law is the law, and if you don't know it, stop running a freakin gun store!! I shouldn't have to teach you the damn law, you should be able to teach me, or stop being a freakin ffl and let someone who knows what the hell they are doing do it. Get your $$ back through your credit card and shake the dust off your shoes at the door.

umm ease up there man,no ffl bashing allowed.you may comment but not bash.

[hill billy]

I have spent more time on the phone with DOJ than I would ever care to think about. I have found that Bonnie Wells is the only person worth talking to. Just about everyone at DOJ will freely admit that the only ones who know anything about anything are the Field reps. Bonnie Wells is the most experienced and knowledgeable Field rep and has trained many of the current reps.

[KillZone45]

When u prove them wrong ask them how they are going to make good on their f**k up, since you are not happy with the situation.

Free box of some nice JHP's would be good IMO

[gravedigger]

and people ask me why I am moving to Kentucky.

[aratron]

Experienced the same s*** from Turners West Covina. The manager was unaware about the COE+C&R exemption as well. Apparently since Turners do so much gun business, they have a DOJ hotline who will answer their question in real time.

The on duty manager made the call and sure enough released my gun after talking to their DOJ guy. The way he explained it was that having the C&R has nothing to do with the exemption, having the COE is what really allow me to waive the 30day restriction. Not sure if he is correct. But I got my gun and they were able to get an answer from DOJ immediately.

I can see how a smaller shop who doesn't have that privilege would not be able to do what that Turners did. And if the DOJ technician said no after describing the situation, they will simply follow what that technician said regardless how much facts we can show. After all, it is their FFL on the line. So I completely understand their perspective.

The bottom line is simply get your money back and do biz with shops that are verse with the law. It is just like the OLL stuff in the past. We vote with our wallets. Shops who understand the law and can accommodate their customers needs will thrive. It is capitalism.

[Packy14]

Experienced the same s*** from Turners West Covina. The manager was unaware about the COE+C&R exemption as well. Apparently since Turners do so much gun business, they have a DOJ hotline who will answer their question in real time.

The on duty manager made the call and sure enough released my gun after talking to their DOJ guy. The way he explained it was that having the C&R has nothing to do with the exemption, having the COE is what really allow me to waive the 30day restriction. Not sure if he is correct. But I got my gun and they were able to get an answer from DOJ immediately.

I can see how a smaller shop who doesn't have that privilege would not be able to do what that Turners did. And if the DOJ technician said no after describing the situation, they will simply follow what that technician said regardless how much facts we can show. After all, it is their FFL on the line. So I completely understand their perspective.

The bottom line is simply get your money back and do biz with shops that are verse with the law. It is just like the OLL stuff in the past. We vote with our wallets. Shops who understand the law and can accommodate their customers needs will thrive. It is capitalism.

exactly. I am not associated with any FFL or gunstore. I just don't think its the customers job to convince people/stores getting paid to do gun business how to do their jobs within the law. It's always nice if customers are well informed, but that is the exception, not the rule. In my line of work it is the same, I get paid to know my job, and if I don't... I don't get paid, and maybe I lose my license to work.

[jtmkinsd]

...

[jtmkinsd]

The on duty manager made the call and sure enough released my gun after talking to their DOJ guy. The way he explained it was that having the C&R has nothing to do with the exemption, having the COE is what really allow me to waive the 30day restriction. Not sure if he is correct. But I got my gun and they were able to get an answer from DOJ immediately.

Believe me...the C&R has everything to do with the exemption. The law was written to exempt collectors from the one in 30 day law to "collect" all the firearms they wanted. However, none of the brainiacs writing the law specified the exemption was only for C&R handguns...so, C&R + COE = as many handgun purchases as you can afford

What most of the people looking for this exemption don't understand is when you get a C&R, BATFE expects it to be used...so if you go for your inspection and you've only brought in a handgun or two in a year, and they're both modern guns, don't expect to keep the C&R.

[tenpercentfirearms]

No offense, but when was the last time you took a customer's advice on how to DROS a firearm?

I agree too many customers are completely ignorant when it comes to the laws, and when we try to explain it to them, they arrogantly say "that's bullsh**" and act like we are denying them.

If a guy comes into my shop and says I can do something that I am not aware of, I will research it. I might call the DOJ and ask too. I fully admit I am not a complete expert on all of CA gun laws and I am not quick to shut people down as I can learn a lot from people. However, that is just me and I understand not all gun dealers act this way, hence this thread.

10%,sad to say but you are wrong.the dealer i was dealing with was a total idiot,so how was i supposed to know that they transmitted the wrong numbers?

You sign the DROS form. Why didn't you check the serial numbers? That is exactly how you would have known. If you were as smart of a customer as you say you are, you would have checked that. You share responsibility.

why did they wait 5 days for me to call and check on the dros status to tell me it was on hold? I only found the discrepancy when i went to the shop compared the the gun dros and sells slip that THEY screwed up and were doing nothing to fix it or inform the customer that there was a problem.

Poor customer service I suppose. I agree, that is one of the first things I do when I get a delay, I double check all of the information to see if the delay was caused on my end.

i know you are a dealer but you do not have defend every dealer out there when they screwup. and yes i do realize that you are a quality dealer,but some out there are not

The only reason I am defending anyone is your throwing around words like idiot and moron to describe a situation where you could have double checked the dealer's work and you could have paid more attention to what was going on. If the dealer ran the DROS as a long gun on a handgun, then that guy is an idiot. Getting a serial number wrong happens. I wouldn't be so quick to ream a guy for it, especially when you sign a document that in paraphrase says, "Is all of this right?"

10%, got to disagree with you here. I wouldn't take it to the level 2007 is advocating, but it is absolutely a dealer's responsibility to know the law; we're the professionals here. And if you know the DOJ often gives incorrect information, then use additional or backup sources. In this case Field Time is dead wrong and the OP is trying to gently educate them. We can't always go by the adage "the customer is always right", but in this case he is and the shop won't listen.

I agree it is the dealer's job to know the law, but don't kid yourselves. The law is complex and difficult to understand. It takes a lot of work and education to get it down.

I as an FFL will not state I know everything. I would most certainly appreciate a customer that wanted to come in and educate me on issues I am not as strong on. And maybe that is the key to good dealerships, they will listen to the customers and explore issues new to them.

Just remember as a customer, you will get a lot further if you are patient with a dealer and try to educate them. Also remember to go over anything that might become and issue with them before you start your DROS. And if the dealer calls the DOJ for clarification and the DOJ says they can't do it, don't blame the dealer. They are under constant threat of inspection and termination.

Again, good luck with getting this resolved. If you want to have the FFL in question call me or e-mail me, please do. I might even be able to give them a DOJ agent's number that I think will rightly clarify the issue for them.

[beemaze]

10%, I tried PMing you, but you aren't accepting PM's. Please PM or email me the info you have on your DOJ contact, so that I may contact them myself and have them contact the dealer principal at Field Time.

Thanks.

[beemaze]

Quick Update

I have spoken via telephone with a field agent from the BoF at CA DOJ regarding my situation. Keep in mind that I had to make a case and read verbatim the penal code as well as quote from a FAQ off of the DOJ website when I spoke with the agent. After we went through it together, the agent also had to clarify things with others and with her manager. After much back and forth telephone tag with the agent at BoF (over the past 3 hours), it has been determined that I am indeed correct. I asked the agent to kindly call the manager at Field Time, which she did, and they spoke and clarified the situation with the manager of Field Time.

So for now, it looks like I am good to go. I will post a further update after I actually take possession of the handgun. I can only hope there will be no further hitches in this matter with Field Time.

[ke6guj]

that seems to be a re-occuring theme at CADOJ. Initially state that the C&R+COE exemption only applies to C&R handguns, then when confronted with the actual code that does not have any language limiting it to just C&R handguns, they reluctantly agree that it applies to modern handguns as well, when dealing with the 30-day rule.