Gun Lock Receipt Quesiton

[cmichini]

Hello FFLs:
A thread in the handguns forum prompted a question regarding the receipt required for a gun lock as required for purchasing a handgun in CA.

Question:
Does the receipt HAVE to be from an official retail store or can you purchase a lock from an individual (with the seller providing a receipt) to satisfy the requirements to have a lock for each handgun purchased and the receipt to be dated within (???) days of the pistol purchase?

I've heard people say you can buy one Walmart, do your pick up and return the lock to Walmart soon after. I CAN do this, but I don't think it's right to use a retailer's inventory like this, even though convenient, even if I don't necesarily like Walmart.

Any insight is appreciated, including how any of you FFLs would address an 'informal' receipt (i.e., written out by a private party vs. printed from a register) when having a customer do a pick up of a handgun.

The question is not only hypothetical, but practical. I am picking up a revolver next week, I have an ample safe, and NUMEROUS locks, but none with a recent receipt. I am willing to ACTUALLY do a purchase of a lock so in theory, and reality, I have purchased a lock recently, I just don't want to play the purchase/return game, nor do I want to pay full retail for superfluous gear when I have another shooter who will sell me one for the purpose CHEAP (like 50 cents - he has extas, too, because he also has a safe).

I also don't want to get into a hassle at the FFL, nor do I want to have to buy a lock at pick up (which would be more expensive than Walmart, I'm sure).

How say you?

And, thanks in advance for your responses, insight and assistance.

Cheers,

[Mssr. Eleganté]

There is nothing in the law that says the receipt must be from an "official retail store". I usually purchase locks from my girlfriend and she gives me a very official looking receipt printed up from a computer. I give a copy of this receipt to the FFL and they keep it with the DROS record for that sale.

[G-forceJunkie]

Related question: Many pistols come with approved locks when you buy them. If I buy a pistol from a private party that comes with all the original equiptment, including the lock, would this suffice? Technicaly I am buying the pistol, and magazine and case and lock from the owner. yay or nay?

[ke6guj]

it should meet the requirements of state and federal law, expecially if you get a receipt from the seller, but not all FFLs will accept it.

[jtmkinsd]

The following is the actual text of the safety device law. If your receipt satisfies the criteria there should be no problem. The hardest part about buying a lock from an individual is getting the correct name and model number of the device...this is where you could get into a jam with your FFL...and it is up to them to accept or reject the receipt.

(e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

In the case of private party transfers, when a lock is included in the box or with the gun all I can say is most FFL's will accept it as a valid exemption from purchasing a new lock. You may run into the grumpy ones however who may make you buy a new one because the one that came with the gun is not on the official list of CA approved safety devices.

[lugar]

Hello FFLs:
A thread in the handguns forum prompted a question regarding the receipt required for a gun lock as required for purchasing a handgun in CA.

Question:
Does the receipt HAVE to be from an official retail store or can you purchase a lock from an individual (with the seller providing a receipt) to satisfy the requirements to have a lock for each handgun purchased and the receipt to be dated within (???) days of the pistol purchase?

I've heard people say you can buy one Walmart, do your pick up and return the lock to Walmart soon after. I CAN do this, but I don't think it's right to use a retailer's inventory like this, even though convenient, even if I don't necesarily like Walmart.

Any insight is appreciated, including how any of you FFLs would address an 'informal' receipt (i.e., written out by a private party vs. printed from a register) when having a customer do a pick up of a handgun.

The question is not only hypothetical, but practical. I am picking up a revolver next week, I have an ample safe, and NUMEROUS locks, but none with a recent receipt. I am willing to ACTUALLY do a purchase of a lock so in theory, and reality, I have purchased a lock recently, I just don't want to play the purchase/return game, nor do I want to pay full retail for superfluous gear when I have another shooter who will sell me one for the purpose CHEAP (like 50 cents - he has extas, too, because he also has a safe).

I also don't want to get into a hassle at the FFL, nor do I want to have to buy a lock at pick up (which would be more expensive than Walmart, I'm sure).

How say you?

And, thanks in advance for your responses, insight and assistance.

Cheers,

Just fill out the safe affidavit and you're gtg.

[jtmkinsd]

Just fill out the safe affidavit and you're gtg.

The safe affadavit is not an option for handgun purchases

[kemasa]

There is a Federal law regarding locks/safes with handguns, but the rules have not been published, as required, and some of it is unclear, depending on whether you read the law or talk to some in the BATF. This is why some consider the safe affidavit to not be acceptable for handguns.

[CSACANNONEER]

The safe affadavit is not an option for handgun purchases

Well, it really is an option for handguns. It does take the place of requiring a receipt for a lock (State law). However, you would still need a lock for it when leaving the store (Federal law). The problem is that not all FFLS are capable of understanding how both laws work. So, some simplify and combine these two requirements by taking the most restrictive of each and believing that it is the ONLY legal way. Normally, these FFLs also sell $25 gun locks to meet the requirement. Many times, these $25 locks are given to them FREE by their local LEA and ment for FREE distribution.

[jtmkinsd]

Well, it really is an option for handguns. It does take the place of requiring a receipt for a lock (State law). However, you would still need a lock for it when leaving the store (Federal law). The problem is that not all FFLS are capable of understanding how both laws work. So, some simplify and combine these two requirements by taking the most restrictive of each and believing that it is the ONLY legal way. Normally, these FFLs also sell $25 gun locks to meet the requirement. Many times, these $25 locks are given to them FREE by their local LEA and ment for FREE distribution.

I misspoke, the reason I said the safe affadavit is not an option for handguns is because the purchaser is required to present a receipt for the lock-box they are going to store the hand gun in AND fill out the affadavit and sign it. In the many cases I have experienced not one person still had the receipt for their lock box.

As for $25 locks, It's hard to imagine swallowing that pill. We sell a CA approved cable lock for $6.50 which works for 99% of the handguns out there. There are very rare occasions where a cable lock simply won't fit the gun in question. In those instances we always inform our customers they will need to bring a lock when they come pick up. We leave it up to them where and how much they pay for it.

[cmichini]

There is nothing in the law that says the receipt must be from an "official retail store". I usually purchase locks from my girlfriend and she gives me a very official looking receipt printed up from a computer. I give a copy of this receipt to the FFL and they keep it with the DROS record for that sale.

Thanks to all the responders, especially the reference from the law.

I plan on doing the same with a receipt/invoice printed up which will have the model number since the lock I will buy (privately) will still be in the original packaging.

I'd like to also print out the safety device law language to provide necessary supporting documentation in case the FFL gets snotty about it. Is there a reference/link (I'd like to be able to print directly from a gov't site vs. a posting in a forum)?

When I do the pick-up, I'll update my original post to provide feedback as to how well/smoothly this transpired.

Thanks again. Calguns rocks!!

[Mssr. Eleganté]

...I'd like to also print out the safety device law language to provide necessary supporting documentation in case the FFL gets snotty about it. Is there a reference/link (I'd like to be able to print directly from a gov't site vs. a posting in a forum)?

If you go to this page on CalDOJ's web site...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12087.php

...and scroll down to Section 12088.1(e) you can do a print screen from there. I actually did the same thing you are planning to do, but none of the FFLs have ever questioned the gun lock receipts that I provide, so I've never had to show them the print out of Section 12088.1(e).

[cmichini]

Thanks guys for all the info.

Current plan is:
I purchased a CA DOJ approved lock from my brother, who had an extra from the recent purchase of a Mossberg shotgun. (He has a safe too, and extra locks). I have a receipt that shows purchase of a gun lock (with model number) dated within 30 days from DROS pick up.

Lock that came with the shotgun actually had a flyer with the Mfg. and model number. The lock is also marked with the model number.

I have a print out from the DOJ that shows this model number as a CA DOJ Approved Gun Safety Device and it indicates (although provided my manufacturer with a shotgun) that it is approved for a myriad of weapons, including the double action revolver to be picked up.

I'll chime in after the weekend pick up to provide post-mortem.

Thanks to all for the assistance.

Cheers

[SVT-40]

I think you missed the part about the federal law requiring a lock to be "furnished" the day of pick-up.

If your receipt is dated for any date other than the day you actually pick up your handgun you will not be complying with federal law.

The thirty day requirement is a California thing. You need to comply with both the federal law as well as the California lock laws.

[kemasa]

There is no Federal law with regards to the receipt. In fact, the rules have not been published, as required. The view of some in the BATF is that the FFL must provide the lock or safe and that the buyer can not.