PPT Gun Lock

[Donny1]

Sorry to did this up again but I did read through this previous post and did not come away with a exact consensus.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=274974&highlight=lock

I want to know as some stated in the thread that if an approved lock is provided when the PPT is initiated, with out a receipt, will that fly?

Also, how do built in locks apply to the law?

Thanks

[Cokebottle]

Legally, if the seller provides the lock, it is a part of the gun sale and it is GTG.

Whether or not that will fly with the FFL is the issue.
There have been reports of FFLs that make customers buy a new lock when they buy a new gun that has a manufacturer-provided lock.

[Donny1]

That's what I took from the other thread as well. So the internal lock satisfies it, or not?

Either way I sent an email to Turners to see what their EXACT policy is. I'll post the reply if I get one.

[halifax]

That's what I took from the other thread as well. So the internal lock satisfies it, or not?

Either way I sent an email to Turners to see what their EXACT policy is. I'll post the reply if I get one.

I posted this about Internal Locks and the DOJ

[Cokebottle]

That's what I took from the other thread as well. So the internal lock satisfies it, or not?

I don't believe the internal lock qualifies.
I was referring to the cable/padlock provided by Ruger, Springfield, etc....

[Donny1]

Thanks

[ke6guj]

Also, how do built in locks apply to the law?

Thanks

depends on the lock.

That S&W lock mentioned above might not be on the FSD roster, but the Springfield ILS internal lock is on the roster. As such, no additional lock shoudl be required. But that didn't recently stop a SoCal shop from requiring that a PPT buyer buy an new lock

[halifax]

depends on the lock.

That S&W lock mentioned above might not be on the FSD roster, but the Springfield ILS internal lock is on the roster. As such, no additional lock shoudl be required. But that didn't recently stop a SoCal shop from requiring that a PPT buyer buy an new lock

I'll be dipped. There is one in there.

Device Make: Springfield Armory
Device Model: I.L.S. (Integral Locking System)

This device will properly function with firearms that meet the following description:

Text Description: Factory installed on all Springfield Armory 1911 pistols which feature the I.L.S. (Integrated Locking System). The I.L.S. is certified for use when installed on all of the following 1911 models except the CRG Model 1911 and the Ultra Compact High Capacity 1911: Colt, Auto Ordnance, Charles Daly, Para Ordnance, Rock River Armory, Kimber, Les Baer, Wilson, Llama, STI International, SV Strayer Voigt, U.S.G.I., Argentin Manufacturer, Caspian Arms, Valtro, Ed Brown.

and/or the following firearm makes/models:


Device Make: Springfield Armory
Device Model: I.L.S. (Integral Locking System)
Firearm Make: All




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TESTED FIREARMS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No All firearms have been tested for this device.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CERTIFIED FIREARMS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No All firearms have been certified for this device.

I wonder if there are any others buried in that list.

[Donny1]

I don't see how you found that. The search on the DOJ site is terrible.

[halifax]

I don't see how you found that. The search on the DOJ site is terrible.

[kemasa]

If you listen to what the BATF says, although they have not officially printed it, the FFL is supposed to provide the lock, not the buyer nor the seller. I suspect that is why some FFLs demand that people buy a lock. The Federal law is poorly worded, to say the least. It could also be that they want to make more profit as well.

[halifax]

If you listen to what the BATF says, although they have not officially printed it, the FFL is supposed to provide the lock, not the buyer nor the seller. I suspect that is why some FFLs demand that people buy a lock. The Federal law is poorly worded, to say the least. It could also be that they want to make more profit as well.

Does the law really say the dealer must be the provider?

18 U.S.C. 922(z), regarding secure gun storage or safety device, states in part that it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device for that handgun at the time of the firearm sales transaction.

[kemasa]

There is more to the law that just what you quoted. One sentence mentions that the FFL must provide, but the sentence you highlighted does not say who and is unclear. If the transferee has a safe, that does mean that "the transferee is provided"?

Remember, I did not say what the law says, just what the BATF says, specifically the BATF lawyer.

I do not think that the law requires the FFL to provide the lock OR the safe, but ...

Remember, it is not what the law says, but how it is enforced. Remember the 2nd Amendment.

[halifax]

There is more to the law that just what you quoted. One sentence mentions that the FFL must provide, but the sentence you highlighted does not say who and is unclear. If the transferee has a safe, that does mean that "the transferee is provided"?

Remember, I did not say what the law says, just what the BATF says, specifically the BATF lawyer.

I do not think that the law requires the FFL to provide the lock OR the safe, but ...

Remember, it is not what the law says, but how it is enforced. Remember the 2nd Amendment.

I guess I'm too dense for that one.


Which sentence in the law says the dealer must provide it. I must have missed it.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I want to know as some stated in the thread that if an approved lock is provided when the PPT is initiated, with out a receipt, will that fly?

Also, how do built in locks apply to the law?

Thanks

You need to be more specific. Who is providing the lock? If the lock is in the case with the gun when it comes in the door, then I would accept it as the seller provided it no different than if it was a factory new Glock with a lock provided.

If the buyer brings it in, I would not accept it for that transaction without a dated receipt.

I would however take the DAC CL551 lock from the buyer and throw it in a box of locks. I would then take out a Regal RC15 (or whatever the number is) and then provide the customer with that lock for the transaction.

Nothing prohibits me from giving people locks. Nothing prohibits customers from giving me locks out the kindness of their own hearts. In fact nothing is prohibited at all except for delivering a firearm without an approved FSD or signed affidavit (Federally, all handguns must now come with a lock).

Remember, (e) only gives you an exemption to (a).

As far as internal locks, if they are on the list, they apply. Now would they apply to a handgun for the federal law? That is a tough one. I would consider the internal lock a safety device.

Better yet, if the handgun has a safety device like a 1911 thumb safety or a Glock Safe Action Pistol trigger safety, that would seem to work too!!!