Why do many FFL's dislike online transfers?

[gunshack]

most of the time i have found that dealers will charge a pretty penny to transfer a gun and most times its not worth it.

I charge a pretty penny to do a transfer, and you're right, most of the time it's not worth it.

[Mike's Custom]

I agree with most of what you are saying but this assumes as an FFL your day is completely filled with work at a designated rate, let's say $20 an hour for whatever hours you are open. I doubt in a lot of cases that this is true. If it is, good for you. You must be doing well. From shopping around for rates when I was considering an out of state purchase I found anyone not paid by the hour or very busy to have a reasonable rate and more than willing to do the transfer. Others I spoke to were willing to do it for good customers without displaying a negative attitude, even if they felt slighted.

I found that buying online and having it shipped here was equal to or more than buying it here. That being said, if I could have found a considerable savings I would have bought it online.

The argument of these out of state dealers not having storefronts and not having the California hassles does not matter to me. If they are smart enough to figure out how to make a bigger profit with less overhead I'm sure they are not genius's, just more creative. I would never feel hurt by someone that made more out of their opportunities than I did.

My attitude may change someday if I ever find a gun store that doesn't make people feel inferior or stupid, does not act in a condescending manner, or maybe has employees that don't act like they have something to prove. If you know of one near Pasadena let me know. I have seen the most recommended store around here treat a friend like he new nothing and would not buy only to lose a $1500 sale.

I don't like hearing the BS about having to deal with idiots that don't buy and the like. I've been in positions where I felt the same way for years and did it with a smile. Loyalty has to be earned. If I have to deal with these attitudes anyway I will just go to Turners and get a better deal.

Even if a FFL is not busy dong paperwork the whole time he is open, it is not like someone working for isn't getting paid their hourly wage even while on a break. For a FFL, they don't make any money if they are not selling something and in CA there is a lot more to being a FFL then other states. For me, if I have a loyal customer I let them call me up and order something without having to come in a make a deposit... well, maybe for a $5000 Barrett I will, because they have earned my trust. And I do have many customers/friends that can do that.

One thing that makes firearms dealing unique is that it is so highly regulated with such dire consequences to the dealer. I don't know of any other retail business where the customer knows exactly what the product cost wholesale.

I have been a FFL since '93 and and I have always tried to give friendly service. I must be doing something right because I have a large return customer base. Most of them like that they can come and spend one on one time and sit and BS and complain about all the CA anit laws. So, next time you are looking for something why not head up this way?

[tenpercentfirearms]

The argument of these out of state dealers not having storefronts and not having the California hassles does not matter to me. If they are smart enough to figure out how to make a bigger profit with less overhead I'm sure they are not genius's, just more creative. I would never feel hurt by someone that made more out of their opportunities than I did.

Actually, I don't think this is really the case. I don't think these undercutters out of state are making that much profit. They just work a lot. We know the profits they are making and it isn't enough to stock very much and make a whole lot. They are just doing volume and shipping a whole ton.

I couldn't do their volume in my store because every sale is going to take me around 20-30 minutes the first day and 10-20 minutes the second day.

I know what busy was like when I was shipping more. I don't miss it that much and I make less money. I also have more free time.

And that there is what it boils down to. I could make all sorts of money blowing product out online, but then I would never get to enjoy my life.

So I would rather stock more expensive items in the shop and cut deals where I can. The nickel and dimers can stick to their online sales and cheap transfer dealers. I am happy where I am at servicing the customers that know what a good shop we are.

[Donny1]

Mike's Custom & tenpercentfirearms,

Just the way you both talk make me feel like you know about the value of customer service. Buying guns in LA sucks!

Might be worth a trip up there. I could just go to my friends ranch in Porterville for 10 days and fish while I'm waiting. Hmmm, not a bad idea.

[7.62x54R]

Find a Dealer open to transfers. They are out there.

[kemasa]

Simi Valley is a bit closer :-). I only do special orders and transfers, plus Fort Courage also does transfers.

[Mike's Custom]

Mike's Custom & tenpercentfirearms,

Just the way you both talk make me feel like you know about the value of customer service. Buying guns in LA sucks!

Might be worth a trip up there. I could just go to my friends ranch in Porterville for 10 days and fish while I'm waiting. Hmmm, not a bad idea.

Well Donny, I know I try. The one thing we all know is, the people always looking for the lowest price usually do more work to get the same product. I know buying a firearm at Walmart was a real test of patients and from people I know that bought their 10/22s on sale usually told me they would never do that again. I have customers/friends that come from LA, Paso Robles, Santa maria, Fresno, Lancaster, Coalinga and other outlying areas. I even have one guy that flies his plane in and I pick him up at the airpark a couple miles from me. He gets to buy guns and spend time in the air.

[halifax]

I'm a non-stocking dealer (i.e., kitchen-table dealer); so, transfers are a big part of my business. I have never minded doing them as long as the customer contacts me first and I know what's incoming (roster, AWs and all that).

I will say, however, I do sometimes feel a bit "jilted" () if a repeat customer never gave me a chance to give him a quote on a common firearm.

[yzErnie]

Customer service seems to be a forgotten business trait these days. Many of us try really hard to make the customers feel like they are important...because they are. Without them there would be little need for many of us to keep our businesses afloat. I have a full time job and I have this business because I enjoy dealing with folks.

As far as the OPs transfer question, in all honesty on occassion it really isn't worth it but I have a successful business running and IMHO, the transfers are a part of it all. I accept it for what it is and I have had several "transfer" customers come back to purchase frome me. It all goes full circle!

[kemasa]

What is a bit funny is the customer who transfers a firearm and pays more money for it than I could have gotten it for them, sometimes they paid quite a bit more. All they had to do was to ask.

Transfers are part of the business and FFLs should do them and charge what it is worth to them and customers should understand that aspect.

[Myzery]

Transfers are part of the business and FFLs should do them and charge what it is worth to them and customers should understand that aspect.

And this is what we call the free market. Both buyers and sellers ultimately come to an agreement about the value of transfer services.

And it really is a service. Doing a transfer is a firearms consultation. Most FFLs have years of knowledge on firearms quality, performance, legal issues as well as connections. If FFL's didn't offer their services, we'd all have to become FFLs ourselves.

I think the biggest gains for both sides on this issue are going to be that of reduce costs for dealers (i.e. simplifying the process).

If FFLs could save an hour of paper work would you be more inclined to offer your services?

Ideally, it would be a ID check and safe rental for 10 days. One idea might be to offer transfer forms available for download or email so a potential buyer could fill out as much as possible on their own.

Who knows, maybe even inventory or factory information could be processed to pre-populate some data. (Just throwing out ideas here)

[tenpercentfirearms]

And this is what we call the free market. Both buyers and sellers ultimately come to an agreement about the value of transfer services.

And it really is a service. Doing a transfer is a firearms consultation. Most FFLs have years of knowledge on firearms quality, performance, legal issues as well as connections. If FFL's didn't offer their services, we'd all have to become FFLs ourselves.

I think the biggest gains for both sides on this issue are going to be that of reduce costs for dealers (i.e. simplifying the process).

If FFLs could save an hour of paper work would you be more inclined to offer your services?

Ideally, it would be a ID check and safe rental for 10 days. One idea might be to offer transfer forms available for download or email so a potential buyer could fill out as much as possible on their own.

Who knows, maybe even inventory or factory information could be processed to pre-populate some data. (Just throwing out ideas here)

I'll mull those ideas over.

[kemasa]

Personally, I would not trust the person to properly fill out the paperwork and it could take longer to go over all of it.

It would be nice if all the paperwork was easier, but I doubt that will ever happen. The 4473 is a bit of a waste, especially with a handgun, since it is a duplicate. It would also be nice if the cost was much lower, but again, that is not going to happen.

I think what gets me the most is the people who think that the transfer should basically be free. What hourly rate would you be willing to pay a FFL? Are you willing to pay for all the phone calls and other communication? If you say yes, I won't believe you. It is not a big deal, but when the person flakes out and does not say anything until I contact them to see what is going on, that is annoying.

The bottom line is that being a FFL is what it is and dealing with retail customers is what it is and that will never change. You have to either deal with it, or stop doing it. It would be best if all the customers were great, but ...