Why do many FFL's dislike online transfers?

[erikdjs]

Asking in sincerity, not griping or complaining...

I don't understand why many FFL's get upset when asked if they will facilitate online transfers.

It would seem to me that by facilitating online transfers the FFL makes his inventory virtually unlimited without spending any capital. He doesn't have to convince the customer on buying the inventory he has in stock. Since he doesn't have to spend time demonstrating the gun and answering questions he can DROS more. His book of clients would grow at a much faster rate because of the fact that he's no longer limited to what inventory he can get his hands on. His ammo sales would probably be much better because of the larger book of clients and the fact that he provides them a valuable service... especially when online ammo sales go away.

Of course, I'm not an FFL so I don't see the craziness you guys see on a daily basis. Again, not griping - just asking an honest question.

[johnthomas]

Many people will have a gun shipped to an FFL without checking to see if is legal here. Major pain for the FFL with no profit. My local ffl will only do transfers on out of production guns, otherwise if you want it, they will order it, take their profit from it, which is more than the 70 dollars including DROS fee that they charge. Other FFL's do a good volume of sales and have no interest in the paperwork and what they call, a small fee. It is my guess that a smaller shop with less walk-in's are more likely to do transfers than a large busy high volume store.

[Capt. Speirs]

We do interstate transfers; we ask only that you give us first shot at selling you the same gun and possibly beating the online price plus shipping and transfer fees.

[kemasa]

Perhaps because most people who want to do such a transfer do not want to pay the FFL much of anything to do it. There is a lot of overhead in having a shop or being a FFL. Also, people don't understand how long some transactions can take. Some FFLs are harder to deal with and if things go wrong, who has to deal with it and who has to pay?

When you buy from an online source directly, that person is the one who makes the profit, yet they are not doing the transfer.

In one case there was a FFL who falsely advertised a firearm as a better model than what it was. When it arrived, it was clearly not acceptable. That FFL did not want to pay me and the customer did not want to pay me, plus I had to take the time and effort to ship it back. There have been other cases where people say that they want to do the transfer and I do all the work so that they can, then they decide not to, so again, I get nothing. It is just the way it is, but I think that for the most part customers do not consider what they are doing nor what the long term effects will be.

If customers (not just firearms) always go to a store to check things out, but then just buy from the cheapest source, how long do you think that the stores will exist?

Take a look at the questions asked. It seems clear that the person thinks that just doing the DROS will make enough of a profit to stay in business. Perhaps, if all the FFL does is transfers. Read the part about the inventory, that is nice, but one aspect of an inventory is to make money on the items being sold. Would you open a store for me to have all my inventory there, but not make a profit on anything sold? I don't mean this as an attack, just trying to get you to look at it from the other side.

You are correct that on the positive side that more customers will come in and that is important.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Transfers don't pay the bills. If I sell a Glock for $575, I make $135. If I transfer a Glock, I make $50.

Most guys come in and impulse buy. You can't impulse buy what isn't there.

Guys who buy online and then do transfers won't buy your ammo. They are going to drive 50 miles one way to get it from Walmart.

I don't mind transfers, especially when I can't find it in stock anywhere. I just prefer to make all of the money myself rather than share it.

[slamfire51]

I live in the highest per capita income area in TN. The prices at gun shops here show it too with their prices. Everything is MSRP, with little chance of price reduction. Do a trade, and it gets worse. Transfer fees are $50+ and an additional $10 BC.

I found a dealer 25 miles from me several yrs. ago, and have used him ever since. He charges $10 per transfer + up to 3 guns on one background check BC ($10). So $20 is the most a customer pays for transfers on a single firearm.

I always check to see if he has what I'm looking for first, if he doesn't I order and pay for it online.

[winnre]

Transfers don't pay the bills. If I sell a Glock for $575, I make $135. If I transfer a Glock, I make $50.

Local FFLs whine that they make less than 10% on any new sale. I figured their profit was closer to 30%. Thank you for your honesty!

Most guys come in and impulse buy. You can't impulse buy what isn't there.

I did a PPT and stayed in the shop for 90 minutes after the transfer was done. There was a lot to see and I will likely buy stuff when I go in for pick-up. It is also a very well stocked shop and I plan to go back again. The FTF PPT is what got me in there in the first place.

Guys who buy online and then do transfers won't buy your ammo. They are going to drive 50 miles one way to get it from Walmart.

Like folks who go to a pro camera store to learn all about the toys then buy online. I hear you. Then they come to you with their questions! I see no reason to buy from a gun store when I can shop at walmart if the gun store is as useless in providing knowledge as walmart is. If you can tell my why this ammo is better than that ammo, you have my repeat business.

I don't mind transfers, especially when I can't find it in stock anywhere. I just prefer to make all of the money myself rather than share it.

When it is a gun I do not mind buying used I can save a bundle. But some PPT want 95% of the gun's original price. I may as well buy new.

[smokinskul]

Transfers don't pay the bills. If I sell a Glock for $575, I make $135. If I transfer a Glock, I make $50.

Most guys come in and impulse buy. You can't impulse buy what isn't there.

Guys who buy online and then do transfers won't buy your ammo. They are going to drive 50 miles one way to get it from Walmart.

I don't mind transfers, especially when I can't find it in stock anywhere. I just prefer to make all of the money myself rather than share it.

AMEN Brother!

[PolishMike]

Winnre-

Look up the difference between margin and profit.

[Donny1]

We do interstate transfers; we ask only that you give us first shot at selling you the same gun and possibly beating the online price plus shipping and transfer fees.

Sounds like good business, without attitude.

Maybe worth a ride to OC. I'll keep you in mind on an upcoming purchase.

[jamesob]

most of the time i have found that dealers will charge a pretty penny to transfer a gun and most times its not worth it.

[Mike's Custom]

First off, lets put this "online transfer" thing to rest. There is NO SUCH THING as a "online transfer" Whether the FFL orders the firearm or a private party orders it, it comes to the FFL and into his INVENTORY. You can call it a "dealer transfer" or "online dealer transfer" but that is about it. What most people consider a online transfer give all the profit to the selling dealer and ALL the liability to the "transfering" dealer. No matter what you may think, the lawyers will go after the CA transfer dealer if there is ever a case.

I look at it like this. Say your a mechanic and you charge $125 for a brake job. But a guy in Texas charges $75 for the same job. Would you be willling to do all the work for $25.00 once I pay him his $75? No, I doubt it.

Also consider, a FFL receives ALLOCATED items on the volume they buy from their wholesalers. When you wonder why your local "transfer" dealer never has the good stuff but the out of state dealer does consider this when you go to purchase your next firearm. If a FFL makes 15-20% on a firearm sale, which is really nothing for a retail business, why would you expect them to do the same work for about $2%? Not only does it not pay to do them but at $25 a CA FFL actually loses money on them considering the time spend and printed copies they have to make if you consider a FFL makes $25 per hour, which most don't.

Considering that most firearms purchased online will cost almost as much as if you just bought it from a local FFL (you might have to deal a bit) once you consider the shipping costs and the local dealers fees. Plus, you buy from a local FFL chances are if there are any problems they will be there to help you out. I have had "transfer" go bad guns not being shipped or shipped in a timely fashion or when they come in the condition may not be as represented or it is shipped with Hi-Cap mags or even not on the Approved Roster. In any case, since I did not supply the firearm I don't do anything to remedy the situation because I did not make the deal or know exactly what transpired between the two parties.

Just to let you know, I do do transfers but most people learn fast that price is always not the only thing to consider. Like Capt. Speirs stated, just give your local FFL a chance first.

[Donny1]

First off, lets put this "online transfer" thing to rest. There is NO SUCH THING as a "online transfer" Whether the FFL orders the firearm or a private party orders it, it comes to the FFL and into his INVENTORY. You can call it a "dealer transfer" or "online dealer transfer" but that is about it. What most people consider a online transfer give all the profit to the selling dealer and ALL the liability to the "transfering" dealer. No matter what you may think, the lawyers will go after the CA transfer dealer if there is ever a case.

I look at it like this. Say your a mechanic and you charge $125 for a brake job. But a guy in Texas charges $75 for the same job. Would you be willing to do all the work for $25.00 once I pay him his $75? No, I doubt it.

Also consider, a FFL receives ALLOCATED items on the volume they buy from their wholesalers. When you wonder why your local "transfer" dealer never has the good stuff but the out of state dealer does consider this when you go to purchase your next firearm. If a FFL makes 15-20% on a firearm sale, which is really nothing for a retail business, why would you expect them to do the same work for about $2%? Not only does it not pay to do them but at $25 a CA FFL actually loses money on them considering the time spend and printed copies they have to make if you consider a FFL makes $25 per hour, which most don't.

Considering that most firearms purchased online will cost almost as much as if you just bought it from a local FFL (you might have to deal a bit) once you consider the shipping costs and the local dealers fees. Plus, you buy from a local FFL chances are if there are any problems they will be there to help you out. I have had "transfer" go bad guns not being shipped or shipped in a timely fashion or when they come in the condition may not be as represented or it is shipped with Hi-Cap mags or even not on the Approved Roster. In any case, since I did not supply the firearm I don't do anything to remedy the situation because I did not make the deal or know exactly what transpired between the two parties.

Just to let you know, I do do transfers but most people learn fast that price is always not the only thing to consider. Like Capt. Speirs stated, just give your local FFL a chance first.

I agree with most of what you are saying but this assumes as an FFL your day is completely filled with work at a designated rate, let's say $20 an hour for whatever hours you are open. I doubt in a lot of cases that this is true. If it is, good for you. You must be doing well. From shopping around for rates when I was considering an out of state purchase I found anyone not paid by the hour or very busy to have a reasonable rate and more than willing to do the transfer. Others I spoke to were willing to do it for good customers without displaying a negative attitude, even if they felt slighted.

I found that buying online and having it shipped here was equal to or more than buying it here. That being said, if I could have found a considerable savings I would have bought it online.

The argument of these out of state dealers not having storefronts and not having the California hassles does not matter to me. If they are smart enough to figure out how to make a bigger profit with less overhead I'm sure they are not genius's, just more creative. I would never feel hurt by someone that made more out of their opportunities than I did.

My attitude may change someday if I ever find a gun store that doesn't make people feel inferior or stupid, does not act in a condescending manner, or maybe has employees that don't act like they have something to prove. If you know of one near Pasadena let me know. I have seen the most recommended store around here treat a friend like he new nothing and would not buy only to lose a $1500 sale.

I don't like hearing the BS about having to deal with idiots that don't buy and the like. I've been in positions where I felt the same way for years and did it with a smile. Loyalty has to be earned. If I have to deal with these attitudes anyway I will just go to Turners and get a better deal.

[kemasa]

Well, you might want to consider the Walmart mentality. You might get low prices, but in the end you will pay for it, one way or another. There used to be many gun shops around, but most of the good places have gone away (along with some of the bad places). Some new places have opened, but certainly not in the amount which replaces the old shops. If the money is not there, the good people will find something better to do with their time.

As was stated, if the deal goes wrong, who is going to deal with it? Have you asked what the cost is to return the firearm or do you just assume that everything is going to be ok? If the firearm has a problem (it does happen from time to time), what is it going to cost you to deal with it?

If all the local FFLs go out of business, what are you going to do?

Years ago there was a placed called B&B. They had low prices and in fact lower than I could order firearms for. The problem was that they were jerks and worse. I personally decided that it was better to pay more and get better service than to have to deal with them.

The bottom line is that everyone makes a decision and has to live with it, but far too often they really don't understand the complete picture and what it means.

[Donny1]

Don't get me wrong, I wish people knew what customer service and respect were. But it's rare. I do reward it with my business when I find it.