Question regarding an FFL shipping for me.

[BurmKiller]

There is a local gun store here (South Carolina) that a gentleman owned who would often ship firearms out for me that I was selling to other competitors - without charging me. This was due to the fact that USPS allows an FFL to ship to another FFL without me as an individual fighting the UPS "Overnight Required" rules - and USPS does not accept firearm shippments from non license holders.

Long story short, the shop has changed hands. The new owner wants $35 to ship out. It is his business, and clearly his right to ask for a fee if he so chooses. I asked him why and he told me that in order to ship a firearm that I am selling as an individual to another out of state individual and shipping to an FFL in that state, he must bring the gun into his inventory and somehow do paperwork showing it was a dealer to dealer transfer.

Is this correct? Does he have to do this - or can he just ship the guns for me?

I am just trying to better understand the process here and would appreciate any feedback any FFL's are willing to provide.

Thanks!

[kemasa]

I had to think about this one for a bit and also look at the USPS form 1508 before coming to the conclusion that the firearm needs to be transferred to the dealer and then marked as being shipped to the other FFL. The reason for this is that form says that it is a customary trade shipment. You might be able to try to include such as shipment as a customary trade shipment, but since it is not logged into the inventory, I don't know that would fly.

The real problem would occur if the firearm was lost or stolen. The FFL would have a serious problem since there would be no record that they ever had it and the FFL would have to be the one to report the package missing as that is who the shipper is.

I have always logged the firearm in and out and I do not charge $35. The only reason for me to ship a handgun is either because the other FFL won't accept a firearm from a non-FFL, in which case the buyer should look for another FFL or to make the shipping costs cheaper than UPS or FedEx. Since I dislike what UPS and FedEx has done, I am willing to make the price less for me to ship it USPS than for the person to ship it direct. I do not do it for free either as I have to go to the post office, but it is close.

[Mike's Custom]

Non FFLs may ship longguns via USPS but not hand guns.

[kemasa]

Yes, but that was not the question.

Since it is cheaper to ship a handgun USPS, but there are limits on who can ship a handgun, the question was whether a FFL can ship a handgun USPS without logging it into the bound book.

[BurmKiller]

Kemasa - Thanks for the info. I am aware that the BATFE web site states that an unlicensed person must ship handguns via common carrier and not USPS (and the bastards stick a big colorful plastic tag on the outside to identify it as a gun, make me ship overnight and wonder why they have a theft issue...). Also states that an FFL holder may ship USPS. USPS regulations coincide with this, in regards to handguns. You are correct though - I am wondering what is required of the FFL when he ships a handgun. MUST it be in the books? You reason for it getting lost sounds reasonable. If the handgun is shipped insured - and the person shipping it is an FFL (BATFE legal, USPS within policy) than I would not believe there would be an issue. I say this because I had an FFL ship a Freedom Arms revolver with a hooded front sight (for silhouette competition) to my FFL and it was damaged. The front sight was broken off. USPS paid for the damages without question. I did have to ask the USPS employee to come out to the parking lot though, because it was a firearm. That got some looks.

With my original question - I understand an FFL is in business and needs to make money and I am all for supporting him. I buy firearms and ammo from this shop on a regular basis. I just felt that it seemed a little odd to charge $35 to ship PLUS the actual shipping charges. Since the shipping is usually in a flat rate box, no trip to the PO required. The new owner worked in the store previously and knows the original owner's policy. So I was just curious is the previous owner was "letting me slide" or if there really is a legal requirement to accept the firearm into inventory.

[Capt. Speirs]

(and the bastards stick a big colorful plastic tag on the outside to identify it as a gun, make me ship overnight and wonder why they have a theft issue...)

Funny, got handguns from Out of State Vendors via UPS and no label saying anything about firearms. Maybe I am blind, what does the label say and what color is it?

[ke6guj]

Funny, got handguns from Out of State Vendors via UPS and no label saying anything about firearms. Maybe I am blind, what does the label say and what color is it?

It sure doesn't say that the package contains a firearm. To do so would violate federal law.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Yes, but that was not the question.

Did I miss the part where the OP mentioned handguns?

[BurmKiller]

Funny, got handguns from Out of State Vendors via UPS and no label saying anything about firearms. Maybe I am blind, what does the label say and what color is it?

When an individual goes to a UPS shipper location they are required (by UPS policy - and BATFE policy states that individuals must comply with common carrier policies) to declare the package as a handgun if it is such. At that time UPS requires overnight shipping and tapes a bright orange plastic tie wrap (the same thing that is used to secure the door on a trailer prior to shipping) to the outside to signify it is a firearm. This tie wrap is removed by the delivery person so when it arrives it does not have the wrap on it.

I have been through this several times - and have even printed out the section in the BATFE rules that state the package should not have external markings identifying it as a firearm and UPS basically didnt care.

[Capt. Speirs]

Did I miss the part where the OP mentioned handguns?

You missed my quote of the OP complaining about UPS shipping Handguns with a bright tag and overnight.

When an individual goes to a UPS shipper location they are required (by UPS policy - and BATFE policy states that individuals must comply with common carrier policies) to declare the package as a handgun if it is such. At that time UPS requires overnight shipping and tapes a bright orange plastic tie wrap (the same thing that is used to secure the door on a trailer prior to shipping) to the outside to signify it is a firearm. This tie wrap is removed by the delivery person so when it arrives it does not have the wrap on it.

I have been through this several times - and have even printed out the section in the BATFE rules that state the package should not have external markings identifying it as a firearm and UPS basically didnt care.

I guess I will ship USPS.

[kemasa]

The part which defines that is being talked about is a handgun is the UPS overnight shipping. That does not apply to long guns.

The post office requires that form 1508 has to be filled out.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm100/preparing-packages.htm

Drop Off
If your mail item weighs 13 ounces or less, and you have affixed correct postage, you can drop it into a blue collection box. If your item weighs more than 13 ounces, and you have affixed postage stamps, you must take it to the Post Office.

432.2 PS Form 1508
PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.

This is unclear if it means that the mail carrier can deal with the form, but if the package weight over 13 ozs, which is likely, it needs to be brought to the post office.

It really does not take much to log the firearm into the bound book, certainly not $35 in my opinion. I believe it needs to be done, but the BATF would be the one which would need to answer that question.

[kemasa]

USPS is the best way to ship handguns as it is far cheaper than UPS or FedEx. For expensive firearms, USPS registered can be cheaper since the insurance is cheaper, but you have to use paper tape to seal the box, not the plastic tape (which can be removed without a trace).

[Mssr. Eleganté]

You missed my quote of the OP complaining about UPS shipping Handguns with a bright tag and overnight.

I didn't miss your quote. But you'll notice that it came after Mike's Custom posted that non-FFL's can ship long guns via the USPS and after Kemasa told Mike's Custom "Yes, but that was not the question."

[kemasa]

UPS overnight shipping rules only applies to handguns, that rule was mentioned in the first post.

[Mike's Custom]

I do not know if this is the same for non FFLs but UPS and FED X have been letting me ship handguns 2 day blue label. I also receive them from some wholesalers that way. Might be worth asking your HUBs. I was also told by my UPS HUB that I could not drop off firearms to the UPS Stores. I haven't tried but that is what I was told.