Any issues for LEO's buying Taurus Judge?

[WFAInc]

Just wondering. I have a LEO that wants to buy a judge. He had gone somewhere else and they told him he couldn't but did not offer any explanation. I said he could since he can purchase anything off roster, but he wants to make sure he can before he commits to it and I just want to verify. Thanks.

[ke6guj]

nope, a Taurus Judge is considered by CA to be an SBS. There is no LEO-exemption to personal ownership of an SBS.

12020(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:

(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

[OHOD]

Darn!
I have been wanting The Judge and had been wondering why there are none around.

[ontargetrange]

The Judge

Darn!
I have been wanting The Judge and had been wondering why there are none around.

I have gone directly to the DOJ source -- it MUST be purchased by the department and assigned by them to an officer -- no personal ownership

Sorry - I could have sold a dozen of them by now

[Vectrexer]

I have gone directly to the DOJ source -- it MUST be purchased by the department and assigned by them to an officer -- no personal ownership

Sorry - I could have sold a dozen of them by now

And I might have bought that dozen too!

[ke6guj]

what will happen is that the buyers will get a nice felony 12020 conviction if they aren't careful. What else should happen? Should they get an amnesty for illegally possessing an SBS because they were ignorant of the law?

[Quiet]

As always, an interesting subject with varying opinions.

Well the letter of the law for CA, says anything that can shoot a shotgun shell and has a barrel length less than 18" and/or an overall length less than 26" is a SBS. In addition the letter of the law for CA, says firearms that are defined as handguns can also be classified as a SBS/SBR.


Penal Code 12020
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Penal Code 12001
(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun," "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.

[ke6guj]

The question still looms;
If the Judge is illegal, why are FFL's still selling them by the dozens every week?

really, dozens per week? Sounds like there may be some drama some day for some people. I'd assume that CADOJ is aware of this since the AFS records should show that Judges are being DROSed.

[ke6guj]

I dunno, maybe they are giving the FFL enough rope to hang themselves.

[CAL.BAR]

nope, a Taurus Judge is considered by CA to be an SBS. There is no LEO-exemption to personal ownership of an SBS.

Also considered an assault rifle/shotgun b/c of the cylindrical magazine (i.e like the famous street sweeper)

[ke6guj]

Also considered an assault rifle/shotgun b/c of the cylindrical magazine (i.e like the famous street sweeper)

possibly. But a Judge does not meet the definition of a shotgun, so it should not fall under the shotgun AW regs.

Similar to how a .50BMG M2 isn't actually a rifle, so it shouldn't fall under the .50BMG rifle ban. But that hasn't stopped CADOJ from confiscating at least one Ma Duece as an unregistered .50BMG rifle.

[WFAInc]

So they're a bunch of LEO's buying these?

[CHS]

As always, an interesting subject with varying opinions.

There's no opinion. It's a felony, and that's a fact. Period.

[professorhard]

But a Judge does not meet the definition of a shotgun

So how is it possible for it to be considered a short barrel shotgun if it doesn't meet the definition of a shotgun?

[ke6guj]

So how is it possible for it to be considered a short barrel shotgun if it doesn't meet the definition of a shotgun?

because CA's definition of an SBS does not require it to be a shotgun.

12020(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

section (A) and (B) just say "firearm capable of firing a shotgun shell" without requiring the firearm be a shotgun. Federal law resembles (C) in that the item must be a shotgun before it can be considered an SBS.