Military Roster Exemption

[ugimports]

I know I know...this has been talked about a lot, but I am going to ask something slightly different.

I am referencing:

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo

and more specifically the section:
I've heard of a shop (I won't name them) that is using this reference as their basis for DROS'ing off roster to active duty (possibly also reserve) military. The employee there has said the DROS had been approved (I don't see why they wouldn't) and they haven't been audited yet.

Anyone know of any official responses from DOJ / DOJ reps that had clarified this was ok?

I know the general consensus is that it is verboten. I am following up with a rep on this specific issue, but not sure when I will hear back. Wasn't sure if something changed and I missed the memo.

BTW: if you're not an FFL (or employed by one) please don't reply unless you can specifically give me feedback you've heard from a DOJ rep.

Thanks

[ronlglock]

Military Roster Exemption

You need to be sworn military — that is you need to be the equivalent of law enforcement (MP?). The DROS definitely will clear but when they are audited both the buyer and the FFL will be in big trouble with your purchase possibly being confiscated and the FFL possibly losing their license to operate in CA.

This is the worst case scenario that our DOJ rep mentioned when asked about badged sheriffs staff who are sworn but don't carry a firearm in the performance of their duties.

[????? ????]

[ugimports]

You need to be sworn military — that is you need to be the equivalent of law enforcement (MP?). The DROS definitely will clear but when they are audited both the buyer and the FFL will be in big trouble with your purchase possibly being confiscated and the FFL possibly losing their license to operate in CA.

This is the worst case scenario that our DOJ rep mentioned when asked about badged sheriffs staff who are sworn but don't carry a firearm in the performance of their duties.

Interestingly enough... I got a call back (no email), but she actually said MP don't count, but any person that has arrest authority both on/off base would count. What Molan said is probably most accurate to what I was told:

...
Someone who has to go to FLETC (federal equivalent of POST) is considered sworn. So for military, that usually means CID/NCIS/OSI, not necessarily MP/SP/Security Forces.

The rep mentioned you should make sure you get a letter from their office confirming position and if you want to be doubly sure, submit that letter to your rep before running the DROS. She said it would be a slow process, but some folks have been approved for their off roster purchase once their position was clarified as being "LEO enough" (my words not hers).

[morrcarr67]

Not an 01/07 FFL nor have I played one on TV. I can't even tell you the last time I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Me personally I don't like the way the DOJ is "interpreting" sworn members.

When I entered the Army many years ago I "swore" to uphold the United States Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. and a few other things that I don't remember.

At the end of that ceremony I was a "sworn" member of the United States Army.

military or naval forces of this state or of the United States
Penal Code section 32000 does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of the above agencies of a handgun.

This reeks of the 1/30 C&R 03 FFL/COE exemption policy they had before they were sued. Personally I think this one deserves a lawsuit too.

[Quiet]

AFAIK...
Only sworn members of the Army Criminal Investigation Division, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Navy Criminal Investigation Service, and Coast Guard Investigative Service are considered Roster exempt.

[ugimports]

AFAIK...
Only sworn members of the Army Criminal Investigation Division, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Navy Criminal Investigation Service, and Coast Guard Investigative Service are considered Roster exempt.

This was the answer I was expecting to get..., but I guess it could be a little more broad than this.

[????? ????]

Me personally I don't like the way the DOJ is "interpreting" sworn members.

When I entered the Army many years ago I swore to uphold the United States Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. and a few other things that I don't remember.

At the end of that ceremony I was a sworn member of the United States Army.

As per Business and Professions Code section 6067, every attorney licensed to practice law in California has to "take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, and faithfully to discharge the duties of any attorney at law to the best of his knowledge and ability," and even gets a nice certificate saying that. So is every attorney in the California Department of Justice and every attorney in a District Attorney's office in California a "sworn member"?

Pretty much every public employee in California takes a loyalty oath under the California Constitution Article XX, section 3 and solemnly swears that they will defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and and the Constitution of California, and that the obligation is taken freely without mental reservation or purpose of evasion, so is every employee of those agencies listed in PC32000, a sworn member?

[code_blue]

We use what is stated on their ID. If it explicitly notes that they are a FLEO then we will accept. We won't otherwise. A business card helps to keep in place over the ID since we don't copy them.

FFDO folks are another one of the oddballs that we get, but they're cleared.

[morrcarr67]

As per Business and Professions Code section 6067, every attorney licensed to practice law in California has to "take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, and faithfully to discharge the duties of any attorney at law to the best of his knowledge and ability," and even gets a nice certificate saying that. So is every attorney in the California Department of Justice and every attorney in a District Attorney's office in California a "sworn member"?

Pretty much every public employee in California takes a loyalty oath under the California Constitution Article XX, section 3 and solemnly swears that they will defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and and the Constitution of California, and that the obligation is taken freely without mental reservation or purpose of evasion, so is every employee of those agencies listed in PC32000, a sworn member?

Well now you're just being silly. Read it again.

* The military or naval forces of this state or of the United States
Penal Code section 32000 does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of the above agencies of a handgun.

A better question is do YOU think that the people you listed are a member of the military or navy of this state or the United State? Because if you don't why did you even bring it up?

This is a question as to who is a "sworn" member of the military and navy of this state or the United States. No other people are in question.