Aren't PPTs required by Ca Law?

[@miller]

Turn them in to the Stasi Comrade. The party will give you an extra ration of TP!

Hahaha - I have decided against that. Thanks for the dose of reason.

[NoHeavyHitter]

Turn them in to the Stasi Comrade. The party will give you an extra ration of TP!

Naming them here was the far better option. Their identity will allow the gun-buying community to decide whether or not to do business with an FFL that treats certain customers with disdain. Maybe if fewer people take up their time by shopping there, they'll have a little more time to run a few more PPT's. Besides, no one really respects snitches running to the authorities..

I say "well done" to the OP for handling it more on down low.

[acespawnshop]

Show of hands, who here has ever actually requested their FFL do a PPT in writing? Ill wait.....If you want to pick and chose what PC you want to quote saying the FFL has to do these, then also quote what the customer who is requesting the PPT do also.....

[SkyHawk]

Show of hands, who here has ever actually requested their FFL do a PPT in writing? Ill wait.....If you want to pick and chose what PC you want to quote saying the FFL has to do these, then also quote what the customer who is requesting the PPT do also.....

The 'in writing' part referred to the dealer's submission of the application for transfer to DOJ with signature from buyer and seller, now known as the PPT DROS. It did not require the customer to request anything like an appointment or permission to do a transfer from the FFL in writing.

Old 11 CCR 4033 - it has been repealed.

4033. Criteria for Processing Section 28050 Transactions.


(a) All dealers shall process a section 28050 transaction upon the request of the transferor. All such requests shall:

(1) Be in writing and contain all of the terms of the transaction, and

(2) Be signed by the transferor and the transferee.

(b) Except as otherwise provided in Penal Code sections 28050 through 28070, a dealer shall process a section 28050 transaction in the same manner as if it were a dealer retail sale.

New 11 CCR 4033

11 CCR 4033
California Firearms Application Reporting System; Account Requirements.
(a) COE applications shall be filed electronically using the Department's California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS), at the following website: https://cfars.doj.ca.gov/login.do.
(b) Applicants shall create an account to use CFARS. To create a CFARS account, COE applicants shall agree to the following conditions of use:
(1) Non-Liability: the Department is not responsible for, and will have no liability for, any hardware, software, information, or other items or any services provided by any persons other than the Department. Except as may be required by law, in no event shall either party be liable to the other or any third party, under any theory of liability, including, but not limited to, any contract or tort claim for any cause whatsoever, for any indirect, incidental, special, or consequential damages, including loss of revenue or profits, even if aware of the possibility thereof.
(2) Authorization: the applicant is authorized to use CFARS for the purpose of reporting firearm information to the Department and/or submitting and managing a Certificate of Eligibility in order to comply with California firearm laws and regulations. If the applicant becomes aware of an unauthorized user obtaining access to the applicant's CFARS account, the applicant will notify the Bureau of Firearms immediately at (916) 227-7527, or via email at: firearms.bureau@doj.ca.gov.
(3) Fees: notwithstanding such notification, the applicant agrees the Department shall not be liable for transaction charges fraudulently incurred. It will be the applicant's responsibility to pay any charges. The Department will not provide refunds after the submission of a transaction.
(4) True and Accurate Information: all of the information the applicant submits to the Department through CFARS shall be true, accurate, and complete to the best of the applicant's knowledge.
(c) The following information shall be provided by the applicant to create a CFARS account:
(1) Full Name
(2) Email Address
(3) Three Security Questions and Answers
(4) Password

There is no longer any reference to 'in writing' on the books, anywhere, and that is likely a good thing because it was being misinterpreted.

[acespawnshop]

The 'in writing' part refers to submission of the application for transfer to DOJ, now known as DROS. It does not require the customer to request anything from the FFL in writing.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=725126

[acespawnshop]

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/regs/chapter3.pdf

Seems to me Sky that the terms of the sale and request be in writing means that they must outline their request for the PPT and terms. I've never had one person actually do it though.

[SkyHawk]

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=725126

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/chapter3.pdf

Seems to me Sky that the terms of the sale and request be in writing means that they must outline their request for the PPT and terms. I've never had one person actually do it though.

You are referring to threads and code from 2013.

Once again: It was REPEALED and replaced in 2019.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=23688295&postcount=52

AFAIK...

That section was repealed on 04-22-2019, the section was refiled and enacted on 07-01-2019.

11 CCR 4033
California Firearms Application Reporting System; Account Requirements.
(a) COE applications shall be filed electronically using the Department's California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS), at the following website: https://cfars.doj.ca.gov/login.do.
(b) Applicants shall create an account to use CFARS. To create a CFARS account, COE applicants shall agree to the following conditions of use:
(1) Non-Liability: the Department is not responsible for, and will have no liability for, any hardware, software, information, or other items or any services provided by any persons other than the Department. Except as may be required by law, in no event shall either party be liable to the other or any third party, under any theory of liability, including, but not limited to, any contract or tort claim for any cause whatsoever, for any indirect, incidental, special, or consequential damages, including loss of revenue or profits, even if aware of the possibility thereof.
(2) Authorization: the applicant is authorized to use CFARS for the purpose of reporting firearm information to the Department and/or submitting and managing a Certificate of Eligibility in order to comply with California firearm laws and regulations. If the applicant becomes aware of an unauthorized user obtaining access to the applicant's CFARS account, the applicant will notify the Bureau of Firearms immediately at (916) 227-7527, or via email at: firearms.bureau@doj.ca.gov.
(3) Fees: notwithstanding such notification, the applicant agrees the Department shall not be liable for transaction charges fraudulently incurred. It will be the applicant's responsibility to pay any charges. The Department will not provide refunds after the submission of a transaction.
(4) True and Accurate Information: all of the information the applicant submits to the Department through CFARS shall be true, accurate, and complete to the best of the applicant's knowledge.
(c) The following information shall be provided by the applicant to create a CFARS account:
(1) Full Name
(2) Email Address
(3) Three Security Questions and Answers
(4) Password

[SkyHawk]

Here is a link to the current 11 CCR 4033 for future reference

https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/IFE84964921864B93B6ECC5F4D00CB05F?viewType=FullText

Here is the change history

HISTORY
1. Change without regulatory effect renumbering section 982.1 to section 4033 filed 6-28-2006 pursuant to section 100, title 1, California Code of Regulations (Register 2006, No. 26).
2. Change without regulatory effect amending section heading, section and Note filed 12-27-2011 pursuant to section 100, title 1, California Code of Regulations (Register 2011, No. 52).
3. Repealer and new section heading and section filed 4-22-2019; operative 7-1-2019 (Register 2019, No. 17).

You can also search for phrases in the CCR. The phrase "Be in writing and contain all of the terms of the transaction" no longer exists anywhere.

[lmcc0072]

[acespawnshop]

Here is a link to the current 11 CCR 4033 for future reference

https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/IFE84964921864B93B6ECC5F4D00CB05F?viewType=FullText

Here is the change history



You can also search for phrases in the CCR. The phrase "Be in writing and contain all of the terms of the transaction" no longer exists anywhere.

Interesting, did you find what it was replaced with? Or was it just repealled?

[acespawnshop]

Also sky. The fact that the state has implemented CFARS should render the PPT process as moot. However, the state will not allow this ever to happen, and it would make the whole process easier.

[????? ????]

California Code of Regulations, Title 11, section 4033 was repealed and replaced with new regulations concerning COEs and CFARS. Notice of the repeal was in the California Notice Register, available online at https://oal.ca.gov/wp-content/upload...3/10z-2018.pdf at about page 389, which says about section 4033:

Section 4033 has been repealed as Penal Code sections 26875, 28050, 28055, and 28060 sufficiently explain how both a CFD and the public shall perform a private party transfer of firearms. This section now establishes the process for creating a California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS) account, including the conditions of use and the required account information.

[Dvrjon]

Interesting, did you find what it was replaced with? Or was it just repealled?

If I may supplement ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ‘s input...

Here’s the regulation package removing the PPT requirement:

Criteria for Processing Section 28050 Transactions. California Firearms Application Reporting System; Account Requirements.
(a) All dealers shall process a section 28050 transaction upon the request of the transferor. All such requests shall:
(1) Be in writing and contain all of the terms of the transaction, and
(2) Be signed by the transferor and the transferee.
(b) Except as otherwise provided in Penal Code sections 28050 through 28070, a dealer shall process a section 28050 transaction in the same manner as if it were a dealer retail sale.
Note: Authority cited: Section 28060, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 26700, 26710, 26825, 27535, 27545, 28100, 28160, 28165, 28210 and 28215, Penal Code.
(a) COE applications shall be filed electronically using the Department’s California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS), at the following website: https://cfars.doj.ca.gov/login.do.

In the Initial Statement of Reasons, (Page 1, paragraph 5), the DOJ stated:

These regulations repeal the sections pertaining to the transfer of a firearm between persons who do not possess a CFD. The Department found that the regulations were not necessary because Penal Code sections 26875, 28050, 28055, and 28060 sufficiently explain how both a CFD and the public shall perform a private party transfer of firearms.

and Page 2, (Benefits) Paragraph 2:

Additionally, the Department has found that the existing regulations regarding the private party transfer process were not necessary. Existing Penal Code statutes sufficiently explain the appropriate actions, and therefore the Department has chosen to repeal those regulations.

[TKM]

Iron Sights once refused a PPT between myself and a LEO from L.A. He drove all the way down to grab a nice M1 Carbine.

Fine, we boogied over to Gunthers and took care of business. An extra 20 miles for the purchaser. (two trips)

Last week the person who shot me down asked why I wasn't doing business there. I told her and she denied the whole thing. WTFFF?


I'm not given to hallucinations. I also don't do business where I'm not appreciated.

[@miller]

Good FFL took care of business

Update - Glaser Arms in Brentwood answered the phone first time and was very gracious about my PPT request. I asked about if would be a problem coming in right when they open and he said "sure, you can show up anytime."

The seller and I showed up Friday morning and Glaser did the paperwork right away - no hassle and very polite and helpful. A+ to Glaser and F- to Canyon Sports. Vote with your dollars as these two vendors are about 30 miles apart.

BTW - interesting read regarding the changes in the regs - some very knowledgeable folks in this forum - thank.you all.

Steve M