Is there a set PPT/DROS fee?

[nplant]

If anything lets look at the folks in Sac as the people who have saddled us with this system.

My point exactly. If the government got out of trying to run businesses, then FFLs could actually make money on the transaction, instead of having it rammed down their throats. That's fair for everyone. Everyone in business has a right to make money. And if one guy doesn't want to make money on the deal, fine. There will be someone else to come along and specialize in that type of transaction. He'll make plenty, and set an example, and pretty soon he'll have competition from someone who thinks they can do it better and cheaper. That's the beauty of a free market. Command economies don't usually work out.

Look at it this way - the state is more likely to run another gun shop out of business entirely than it is to make something somehow "more fair" for gun collectors.

Who is John Galt?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

The only people being ripped off in California by a state-mandated fee that can't be changed without legislation is the private business.

You are wrong on this. Dealers aren't the only ones being ripped off by the PPT requirements.

Dealers are being ripped off by the state-mandated fee of $10. They deserve more than that for the time and hassle it takes.

Private parties are being ripped off by the state-mandated $35 transfer fee and the costs of travelling to a gunshop twice. They should be able to transfer their private property without involving Dealers or the State.

Everybody involved is getting screwed over by the State. Dealers might have to do $40 worth of work for a measley $10, but at least they don't have to get dragged out of bed on their day off from work twice to complete a transfer like the buyer does. Until we can get the Dealer transfer requirements abolished, both sides need to just grin and bear it. Dealers can look at the bright side of having known gun buyers forced into their shops. PPT participants can look at the bright side of getting to hang out in a gun shop for 15 minutes to an hour. Neither side should try to steal money from the other to make up for the hassle.

[halifax]

The state is being disingenuous. If they really wanted to encourage the public to follow their laws on transfers, they should have waived their own fees, not burdened the dealers with the loss.

DROS Fee $19
Safety and Enforcement Fee $ 5
Safety Training Fee $ 1
Maximum Dealer Fee per Firearm $10

Let the dealer keep the whole $35. That might be worth it.

[rbetts]

Let the dealer keep the whole $35. That might be worth it.

For that matter, let the market set the price. Bet it would go up a bit. But then their main intent for the PPT (to register guns) would not happen.

Doh!!

[nplant]

Private parties are being ripped off by the state-mandated $35 transfer fee and the costs of travelling to a gunshop twice. They should be able to transfer their private property without involving Dealers or the State.

I stand corrected. This is quite true.

However, I disagree that there is a bright side when both parties are being forced into a bad business deal by the state. Can you tell that I don't like government involvement in business?

[bubbapug1]

In todays world I think we can all see the goverment has not become part of the solution, it has become most of the problem....and this is only going to get worse until we take our check books away from the scumbags who now fill our public offices.

[probie]

You are wrong on this. Dealers aren't the only ones being ripped off by the PPT requirements.

Dealers are being ripped off by the state-mandated fee of $10. They deserve more than that for the time and hassle it takes.

Private parties are being ripped off by the state-mandated $35 transfer fee and the costs of travelling to a gunshop twice. They should be able to transfer their private property without involving Dealers or the State.

Everybody involved is getting screwed over by the State. Dealers might have to do $40 worth of work for a measley $10, but at least they don't have to get dragged out of bed on their day off from work twice to complete a transfer like the buyer does. Until we can get the Dealer transfer requirements abolished, both sides need to just grin and bear it. Dealers can look at the bright side of having known gun buyers forced into their shops. PPT participants can look at the bright side of getting to hang out in a gun shop for 15 minutes to an hour. Neither side should try to steal money from the other to make up for the hassle.

I agree with the flow of logic...I feel that some of the FFLs have an opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade. When you have individuals coming into a gun shop to process paperwork you have a great opportunity to keep or make a customer out of them.

I called around several FFLs in the area to inquire about having a transfer performed for a gun out of County and was told, "We will not accept the FFL if it's a gun we carry in shop" and "We will charge over $100 in addition to dros if it's an item we do not carry"...

Ultimately it's the customer who looses out in all of this.

[eltee]

When you consider the overhead of running a gun dealership, the $10.00 allowed to FFL's for a PPT is very low. In addition to the normal costs of running any business (rent, utils, licenses, taxes, staff, office equipment, etc.) and those unique to gun stores (required security devices, alarm service, gun safes) and the insurance to run a gun store it is almost a loss in some cases. Liability and general insurance for having an FFL, even a home-business, is very expensive.

In addition to the DROS paperwork, you need to log the firearm in and out of the FFL bound book, store it securely, etc. You are responsible for that firearm until it is delivered to the buyer. A customer can claim you damaged it, scratched it, etc. If it is stolen or damaged while you store it, you or your insurance will have to deal with the owner's claim against you.

Will the customer bring in a copy of his HSC or will you have to make a photocopy on your machine? If you need secondary documentation of an address, you'll probably have to make the photocopy. More time and money.

A SMART dealer will examine the gun for obvious safety issues. Even though you might simply be doing the DROS on a PPT, you are in the loop of that transaction and you can bet that an injured buyer (plaintiff) will name you in the lawsuit if the gun malfunctions. If the gun is used in a subsequent crime, you can bet you'll be answering lots of questions and sending photocopies (at your expense) to a variety of LE agencies.

All this for a handsome profit of $10.00.

[ke6guj]

Not everybody is saying that you don't earn the $10, but the law says that you can only charge $10 for the service. And, as part of accepting the privledge of being a dealer in CA, you will process PPTs for the public because the legislature wants all gun sales documented.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I don't complain about PPTs. It is just part of the business. They mandate you have to transfer all firearms through me, so it is fair they mandate what I can do on a PPT. Seriously, I don't know why dealers whine about it so much. PPTs, even of handguns, is not that time consuming. We quite frequently have people lined up out the door.

I never feel bad for handling PPTs in the same order they came in and no one has ever said, "Damn it, I am leaving this worthless shop and you lost thousands of dollars of my business because you took the 10-20 minutes to do that PPT for that guy that got here before me!"

However, I have heard numerous threads where people who were given the shaft or the run around on PPTs have never returned.

This isn't rocket science.

[Wild Bill]

I don't complain about PPTs. It is just part of the business. They mandate you have to transfer all firearms through me, so it is fair they mandate what I can do on a PPT. Seriously, I don't know why dealers whine about it so much. PPTs, even of handguns, is not that time consuming. We quite frequently have people lined up out the door.

I never feel bad for handling PPTs in the same order they came in and no one has ever said, "Damn it, I am leaving this worthless shop and you lost thousands of dollars of my business because you took the 10-20 minutes to do that PPT for that guy that got here before me!"

However, I have heard numerous threads where people who were given the shaft or the run around on PPTs have never returned.

This isn't rocket science.

+1 for 10percent The way I look at it is if you want to be a ffl in california then you must do ppt and this is what you can charge. If you dont like it then dont open up shop. I know as a customer and gun owner, I would rather be able to sell my firearms the way it used to be, no ffls involved. But since the DOJ says otherwise we are all stuck with this.