Proof of Residency Alternatives

[kemasa]

Not really missing the point and i understood you. I was just pointing out that the CA residency for a long is established (as a CA resident only) via the DL/ID whereas no one from out of state can dros any gun in this state. Technicality

The CA ID/DL might not have their current residence address, which means it wouldn't establish residency. There are people who don't live in CA, but have a CA ID/DL, which means they have the means to submit a DROS.

[pacrat]

Is there any aspect of CA firearms laws that are not BS Pac?

DROS was implemented by AB 263-Hawes, introduced in 1923 and effective August 7, 1924.

NOPE

[Librarian]

Is there any aspect of CA firearms laws that are not BS Pac?

I'd say PC12022.5 and .53 once had promise - those are the 'use a gun, go to jail' sentence enhancements.

But it strikes me 12022.53(h) has been abused -

(h) The court may, in the interest of justice pursuant to Section 1385 and at the time of sentencing, strike or dismiss an enhancement otherwise required to be imposed by this section. The authority provided by this subdivision applies to any resentencing that may occur pursuant to any other law.

[????? ????]

But it strikes me 12022.53(h) has been abused -

[Librarian]

Subdivision (h) became effective January 1, 2018. Before that date, a PC12022.53 enhancement could not be dismissed by a judge. I’m curious as how you know that a judge has abused this discretionary power in the past year.

I don't - I didn't notice the effective date on that sub-section, so thanks for the info.

But I'm not aware of a lot of gun-using-criminals, convicted of a listed crime, sitting in the time-out chair for overtime. I would be grateful for a pointer to sentencing data which may make me better informed.

[GoingQuiet]

Does anyone know what would work as POR other than DMV registration and lease agreement?

So would a business license from the city work if the address and name matches my ID?

Are you asking for compliance with ATF or asking for compliance with CA's laws?

A lease has never worked for ATF.

[kemasa]

Oh I forgot to mention that I looking to buy a handgun. I have been to a lgs and they told me to get some sort of "Government issued permits or licenses". So I'm just wondering if anyone has any idea what else would work.

What actually works and what the FFL you are using can be two very different things.

If your CA ID/DL has your current residence address, then that covers the Federal requirement.

CA doesn't accept your CA ID/DL for proof of residency for handguns, even though for a Real ID you have to prove your residence address and CA doesn't require that the proof be a government document.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#14G

Please note that the examples don't strictly follow the law as a lease isn't actually required to be notarized. If you read the part above where it is mentioned, there is no mention of that it has to be notarized.

14. What documentation is acceptable proof of residency for handgun purchasers?

A. Utility bill from within the past three months that bears on its face the individual's name and either of the following:
1. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
2. The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

"Utility bill" means a statement of charges for providing service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired Internet, telephone connection or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection) or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.
B. Residential lease that bears the individual's name and either of the following:
1. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
2. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
"Residential lease" means either of the following:
a. A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time; or
b. A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.
C. Property deed that bears the individual's name and either of the following:
1. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
2. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
"Property deed" means either or the following:
a. A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust; or
b. A valid Certificate of Title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.
D. Current, government-issued license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
1. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form; or
2. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License, California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

Examples of acceptable proof of residency:
Current DMV registrations.
Electricity, gas, cable bill with purchaser's name on it from within the last 3 months.
Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.

Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:
Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
Cellular phone bill.

Also, hunting licenses are issued by the government now.

[edgerly779]

And fishings licenses they tied directly to d/l or ca id thru internet/terminal.

[????? ????]

I don't - I didn't notice the effective date on that sub-section, so thanks for the info.

But I'm not aware of a lot of gun-using-criminals, convicted of a listed crime, sitting in the time-out chair for overtime. I would be grateful for a pointer to sentencing data which may make me better informed.

California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations has an Office of Research, which publishes population reports, including characteristics of the people who are guests of CDCR, such as what crimes they have committed. It's on CDCR's website.

California sentencing is very complicated. I took an entire semester-long class devoted to just California sentencing law. A PC12022.5 enhancement adds 3, 4, or 10 years to a sentence. If a prosecutor charged a a PC12022.53 enhancement, 10 years is added for the use of a gun, 20 years is added for the discharge of a gun, or a life term results for death or great bodily injury from the discharge of a gun. Before 2018, if a prosecutor charged a PC12022 or a PC12022.53 enhancement, the enhanced sentence must be imposed by the judge. The judge had no discretion to ignore or say it wasn't in the interests of justice, but had to impose it. A defense attorney could not ask a judge to not impose it. A prosecutor could choose to bargain away the enhancement in a plea bargain, but that is the nature of a plea bargain. What incentive is there to avoid trial, if the result is going to be same pleading guilty before trial or being found guilty after trial?

As for the actual topic of this thread, which is proof of residency...
Penal Code section 26845 says:

(a) No handgun may be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents documentation indicating that the person is a California resident.

(b) Satisfactory documentation shall include a utility bill from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property deed, or military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice.

(c) The firearms dealer shall retain a photocopy of the documentation as proof of compliance with this requirement.

The regulations by the Department of Justice are found in 11 CCR 4045:

The following definitions and requirements apply to documents intended to serve as evidence of residency for the acquisition of a handgun pursuant to Penal Code section 26845:
a.1. “Utility bill” means a statement of charges for providing direct service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired telephone or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection), or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.
2. The utility bill statement date must be within three months of the current date.
3. The utility bill must bear on its face the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
b.1. “Residential lease” means either of the following:
A. A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time.
B. A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.
2. The residential lease must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
c.1. “Property deed” means either of the following:
A. A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust.
B. A valid Certificate of Title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.
2. The property deed must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
d. “Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice” means either of the following:
1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
2. A valid peace officer credential issued by a California law enforcement agency to an active, reserve, or retired peace officer.

But as others have pointed out already, it's what the guy at the counter says, not necessarily what the law is, even if that may be a misdemeanor under PC28250(a)(4). I have encountered poorly trained gunstore employees who insist that the utility bill must be from a government entity such as the LA Department of Water and Power. I have had gun store employees refuse me to give me a copy of the approved DROS in violation of PC28215(e). What am I going to do? Rat people out to DOJ?