interstate interfamilial gift come directly from online ffl?

[caliguy93]

Well what’s the difference in the logistics of its off roster or not other than being exempt? A gift transfer is a gift transfer

Type 1: son in NY orders Remington 700 from budsgunshop and send it directly to Fathers ffl in California as a gift . Dealer conducts transfer

Type 2: son in NY order sig P365 from budsgunshop and sends to fathers ffl in California as gift. Dealer conducts transfer as exempt handgun sale

Or (what the basis of the question is)

Type 3: son in NY orders Remington 700 from budsgunshop, sends it to ffl in NY, conducts 4473, puts it in his name, then ships gun to fathers ffl in California. Dealer conducts transfer

Type 4: Son in NY orders sig P365 from budsgunshop, sends it to ffl in NY, conducts 4473, puts it in his name, then ships gun to fathers ffl in California. Dealer conducts transfer as exempt handgun


Taperz has the original question correct . My brother wants to gift my dad an off roster pistol and would like to avoid the handgun permit process New York requires to possess a handgun since New York requires it for each handgun and the process takes about 4 months.


Which types (1,2,3, or 4) are legal? So far ATF has told me only types 3 and 4 are legal but we don’t have any basis other than the ATF agents opinion (which does matter obviously) that types 1 and 2 are not legal

[kemasa]

I think that you are getting confused with two different aspects. The gift aspect really doesn't matter as it doesn't actually affect the transfer. The main issue is in regards to an off roster handgun for a non-exempt person in which it needs to be an intrafamilial transfer.

I could give you a gift by paying for the firearm directly to your FFL, sending a gift card, giving you cash, buying the firearm myself and shipping it to your FFL or some other means of paying for it. It doesn't matter how the firearm is paid for as long as there is no limit to the ability to transfer it.

You have to be very careful in the question that you ask in order to get the correct answer and understand it.

There is NO requirement or reason to transfer a firearm to the person giving it if the person getting it could just buy it, meaning that no exemption is required.

In order to do an intrafamilial transfer between select family members the person who the firearm is coming from has to own it and have possession of it in order for it to be an exempt transfer otherwise they are just paying for it, it isn't actually coming from them and so it isn't a transfer from them. It isn't just about paying for it, as any other gift would be.

So for your examples:

1 is fine, it is just like the person buying it, except that the other person paid for the gift.

2 is not legal as the handgun is not on the roster and is not exempt from the roster and the son does not own and have possession of the firearm so that it wouldn't actually be an intrafamilial transfer.

3 can be done that way, but there is no requirement to transfer the firearm to the son as there is no restriction on the transfer. Since it is a long gun, there won't be any additional documentation required.

4 is required to be done that way as the firearm is not on the roster and in order to be transferred to the father, it has to be owned and possessed by the son in order to be exempt as an intrafamilial transfer. The transfer needs to be documented that it is from the son to the father and I have been told that you could have a copy of the son's ID (sender) to document that it is really a valid intrafamilial transfer.

Does that explain things?

[Over It]

Sigh....

[caliguy93]

ok so if the receiving ffl requires all shipments to come from an ffl. How would the receiving ffl know if the firearm was ever in the out of state family members name? how would the DOJ know? there would be no difference in the paperwork or appearance. it would be indistinguishable.

[kemasa]

ok so if the receiving ffl requires all shipments to come from an ffl. How would the receiving ffl know if the firearm was ever in the out of state family members name? how would the DOJ know? there would be no difference in the paperwork or appearance. it would be indistinguishable.

Is it about what you can get away with or what is legal?

If they notice, which might be unlikely, and if they decide to investigate, which might be unlikely, they could have the firearm traced and if was never transferred to an individual, then there would be a problem. If it was sold to a different individual, then they could talk to the person to see what they did with it. Don't assume they could never figure it out, however unlikely it might be. As the saying goes, who cares if it is one in a million if you are the one.