interstate interfamilial gift come directly from online ffl?

[caliguy93]

anyone know if the out of state gun has to be in the family members name first? or can say son purchase gun online and send it straight to ca ffl and mail letter and copy of ID separately to ffl indicating intentions that it is a gift to father?

Reason I ask is my brother is moving to New York where they require gun permits for each handgun purchased that can take up to 4 months and also requires a reference of another New York resident who has lived there for at least a year.

does my brother have to go through the entire handgun permit process, then take the handgun into his name before shipping the gun with appropriate documentation to the CA ffl? or can my brother simply order the gun online and have it shipped to CA ffl and mail separately the appropriate documentation?

from a paperwork perspective, if the ffl requires shipments to come from an ff only, the paperwork wouldn't look any different if it was in my brothers name or not.

[Burbur]

On paper, in bound book, DES and during an audit, it would be indistinguishable.

It is equally common for transfers of this type to be received from an FFL with CFLC or from an individual. About the only thing that could be looked at is the New/Used question on DES.

[taperxz]

anyone know if the out of state gun has to be in the family members name first? or can say son purchase gun online and send it straight to ca ffl and mail letter and copy of ID separately to ffl indicating intentions that it is a gift to father?

Reason I ask is my brother is moving to New York where they require gun permits for each handgun purchased that can take up to 4 months and also requires a reference of another New York resident who has lived there for at least a year.

does my brother have to go through the entire handgun permit process, then take the handgun into his name before shipping the gun with appropriate documentation to the CA ffl? or can my brother simply order the gun online and have it shipped to CA ffl and mail separately the appropriate documentation?

from a paperwork perspective, if the ffl requires shipments to come from an ff only, the paperwork wouldn't look any different if it was in my brothers name or not.

This would be a straw purchase whether the individuals are legal purchasers or not.

[taperxz]

On paper, in bound book, DES and during an audit, it would be indistinguishable.

It is equally common for transfers of this type to be received from an FFL with CFLC or from an individual. About the only thing that could be looked at is the New/Used question on DES.

[CSACANNONEER]

Brother to brother gifts where one brother is not a resident of CA are subject to the not unsafe handgun roster so, don't try this attempting to get an off roster handgun. Of course, it would be roster exempt if a son gifts an off roster firearm to a parent or grandparent. Also, a legitimate gift is in no way a straw purchase.

[CSACANNONEER]

Do you have any supporting documentation?

[taperxz]

Brother to brother gifts where one brother is not a resident of CA are subject to the not unsafe handgun roster so, don't try this attempting to get an off roster handgun. Of course, it would be roster exempt if a son gifts an off roster firearm to a parent or grandparent. Also, a legitimate gift is in no way a straw purchase.

[taperxz]

Do you have any supporting documentation?

[taperxz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramski_v._United_States

[caliguy93]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abra..._United_States

Not sure if I’m reading that right, but In that case, Person A filled out a 4473 saying it was for him, only to immediate gift it afterwards...which was considered a straw purchase.

That would mean that if my brother wanted to gift my dad the gun, he would not be allowed to 4473 the gun into his name and he has to gift a new gun by sending it directly to the receiving ffl of the giftee?

[taperxz]

You are reading it wrong. The end user paid for the gun

[taperxz]

This whole thing is easy and legal to get around with the use of Gift Certificates, Gift Cards or a simple check. Let the end user process the financial transaction and go into the receiving FFL to start paper work

[caliguy93]

You are reading it wrong. The end user paid for the gun

Which is still different then the situation at hand

Scenario 1: Son pays for gun from budsgunshop and sends to ca ffl. The father fills out the 4473 stating they are the actual transferor and they are. There are no lies or misrepresentations there. Son also mails his letter stating intention of gift and copy out of state ID

Scenario 2: Son pays for gun on budsgunshop and has it sent to his ffl. Son fills out 4473 stating he is the actual transferor even though he is not the end user since he intends to immediately regift it to father. Here he lies on the federal form and has committed a straw purchase since he is not the actual intended end user of the transaction.


In the case you cited, original purchaser filled out the 4473 saying he was the actual transferor even though he had intent to immediately transfer to his uncle after. The case lines up with scenario 2 more then it does with scenario 1.

[caliguy93]

This whole thing is easy and legal to get around with the use of Gift Certificates, Gift Cards or a simple check. Let the end user process the financial transaction and go into the receiving FFL to start paper work

Gifting off roster does not allow that.

[taperxz]

Gifting off roster does not allow that.

There you go