Rhetorical Question -- Second Hand Dealers License

[Nardo1895]

My Second Hand Dealer's License is up for renewal. Its one of the more expensive licenses I have and I seldom if ever use it. The only reason I got it the first time around was CA DOJ told me I needed it to do PPTs since those are used guns. I argued I wasn't selling anything other than my services as a FFL but they said that still made me a second hand dealer.

I'm not so sure that was accurate. I think a second hand dealers license is only required if I sell used guns or take consignments (a PPT is neither). To date, the only used guns I've sold have been from my private collection which I've sold as PPTs, not dealers sales. I don't think I need a second hand license to buy a used gun, just to sell it. Although a case could be made I can never do anything with it once I bought it unless I have the Second Hand license.

I have done Gunbroker transfers for customers which seem more like a PPT than a dealer's sale, but they are not really PPT's so I assume a second hand license could be required for those? I'd still argue I'm neither buying nor selling used guns in that case, only selling my services as a FFL.

I'm probably going to go ahead and renew as at some point I'd like to sell used guns. I'm just asking if I must renew if the only time I planned to handle a used gun is for a PPT or an internet transfer.

[taperxz]

You only need the second hand dealers license if you are going to consign guns.

Consigning is selling for a customer a gun they want to sell but don't want to be there for the sale and you get a percentage of the sale for doing the work

[Tyke8319]

As an FFL, it's my understanding that if you purchase a "used" firearm you must keep it for a year before you can sell it.

[acespawnshop]

As an FFL, it's my understanding that if you purchase a "used" firearm you must keep it for a year before you can sell it.

No, if you purchase from the public you have to submit JUS123 form to the CAPSS system and hold it for 30 days. (DES acquisition required for all buys as well)

Consignments are not purchases thus not run through the CAPSS system just the DES and you still have to hold them for 30 days before you can dispose of them.

[kemasa]

As an FFL, it's my understanding that if you purchase a "used" firearm you must keep it for a year before you can sell it.

The requirement is that is if a sole proprietor acquires a firearm and doesn't fill out a 4473, that if they want to sell it prior to a year, they have to run it through they business.

[kemasa]

You only need the second hand dealers license if you are going to consign guns.

Consigning is selling for a customer a gun they want to sell but don't want to be there for the sale and you get a percentage of the sale for doing the work

You also need it if you buy firearms from local sellers for inventory.

[kemasa]

You don't need it for PPTs since if you did every dealer would have to have it since all dealers are required to do PPTs.

[Tyke8319]

The requirement is that is if a sole proprietor acquires a firearm and doesn't fill out a 4473, that if they want to sell it prior to a year, they have to run it through they business.

And if they wait till after a year it can be sold as a PPT...Sole proprietor to buyer??

[kemasa]

And if they wait till after a year it can be sold as a PPT...Sole proprietor to buyer??

Yes, but even before a year it can be sold as a PPT, but the FFL has to do it themselves. There are no restrictions after a year, except for maintaining a log 478.125a.

[taperxz]

You also need it if you buy firearms from local sellers for inventory.

No you don't. We had one but i hated the whole consignment thing. The ability to consign is no longer on the DES for us but we can still buy product without the second hand license. Need to wait the 30 ect.

[kemasa]

No you don't. We had one but i hated the whole consignment thing. The ability to consign is no longer on the DES for us but we can still buy product without the second hand license. Need to wait the 30 ect.

Yes, you do.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=21626.&lawCode=BPC

[taperxz]

Yes, you do.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...6.&lawCode=BPC

This doesn't exempt purchases from CA FFLs? Your link shows an exemption and this is what the exemption says

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=26500

[kemasa]

That exemption says that you have to be a dealer in order to sell or transfer firearms.

[kemasa]

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/fdasfaqs052010.pdf

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=21641.&lawCode=BPC

[taperxz]

That exemption says that you have to be a dealer in order to sell or transfer firearms.

Yes and the link you provided says thats the exemption.

Additionally, where in the law does it say an FFL must buy from another dealer? If someone walks in to sell a shotgun, are you implying i can't buy it, wait 30 days after submitting the paper and then sell it? We no longer consign and that has locked us out of the FDAS It still lets us into the buy aquisition.