CFLC Problems

[acespawnshop]

I believe our customer paid using money order. Also, I learned that if you are trying to sign up for the CFLC program, and when you enter in your FFL information and you put in a CA address the CFLC program will not let you send a Firearms Shipment Verification form without providing your CFD number. This is where the knucklehead got stuck.

[kemasa]

I believe our customer paid using money order.

How did he send it? If it was sent USPS, he might be able to file mail fraud charges since the "FFL" is not really a FFL.

Since the person is not really a dealer, then the question comes do you really need a CFLC?

[acespawnshop]

Ok. If he's not a bonafide dealer then it's logged in my book incorrectly since I looked it from an FFL. And if he's not a legitimate dealer then his FFL is invalid and I can't send the gun back to a nonlicensee

[ripro75]

I don’t think you logged it in wrong. If he has a current FFL (per BATF) you should be able to log it in using his name and FFL number or you can use name and address. Pretty much the same as if you received it from an 03 or individual.
Kemasa has a point though in regarding if he isn’t a legit CA dealer, then would a CFLC be required anyway? Based on this, it actually seems you could transfer it to your customer without a Shippping Authorization Letter.
I would certainly say you can’t ship it back because you can’t ship to a non-licensee and without a CFD#, he should be treated as such.

[kemasa]

In looking at the CFLC, it says that if the person has a FFL, which in this case he does, even though he does not have all the other required permits/licenses. Not that it matters, but I assume he is a sole proprietor and that does create a situation where if you logged it in from the name and address it would be not known whether it was from a FFL or a private party. Only if it was checked would it be known that the person had a FFL, so it still would not be right. If he was a gunsmith, he might qualify as being exempt from the CFLC.

As you say, you can not return it as he is not considered a CA FFL and you can't get a CFLC. Under Federal law, he does have a FFL though, but sill not properly licensed.

It is quite the mess. I wonder if it would be acceptable to ship it out of state since otherwise your only option seems to be to turn it over to the police.

[acespawnshop]

It's a total cluster F. I'm going to ask DOJ could I ship it to another FFL who has already agreed to receive it. Then ship it back to me with a CFLC. What's the difference. I never got a CFLC from the OG FFL and never will. I can't ship it back to him since he ain't properly licensed. Why not just ship to another dealer l?

[kemasa]

In one sense if you ship it out of state, the bound book is none of the CA DOJ's business. They never thought of situations like this and I am not sure if they care of what it all means. If you think about it, why do they need to know about a shipment of a firearm that is already in CA? There is also the issue that the person who shipped it to you never got a CFLC either.

[yzErnie]

Just throwing it out there...if it really was his personal gun could he just send it to an FFL with a copy of his CDL or CaID?

[acespawnshop]

He could have. But he chose not to

[acespawnshop]

Update: We got an email from the dealer on Saturday PM stating that he has mailed us a copy of the CFLC. I'm curious how he has gone from not having a valid CFD to being able to get me a CFLC over the weekend when the Bureau of Firearms is not working. I've emailed our field rep with the DOJ to make sure everything is correct and we will see what arrives in the snail mail.

BTW we have told this guy multiple times that all we need is the approval number. But obviously this has fallen on deaf ears.

[kemasa]

You might need to call to see if the number given matches his information and your information.

There is no reason why he could not email it.

[swell1957]

What is preventing you from transferring the received firearm to the customer? Does DOJ require that you enter the shipment verification number before processing the DROS to transfer to the customer?

A dealer who is exempt from the CFLC (gunsmith, etc.) must still be on the exempt list if they will receive/send firearms within CA and is issued an exempt dealer 5-digit number, similar to a CA dealer.

[kemasa]

What is preventing you from transferring the received firearm to the customer? Does DOJ require that you enter the shipment verification number before processing the DROS to transfer to the customer?

You mean other than the CA law? A FFL is required to get the number and if not, they can't do much of anything with the firearm other than return it or turn it over to the police. Stupid law, but it is what it is. The FFL does not have to enter the number anywhere, but that is not relevant.

[swell1957]

You mean other than the CA law? A FFL is required to get the number and if not, they can't do much of anything with the firearm other than return it or turn it over to the police. Stupid law, but it is what it is. The FFL does not have to enter the number anywhere, but that is not relevant.

Yes, it seems like the shipping FFL broke CA law by sending to another FFL within the state without acquiring the shipping approval number. DOJ FAQs say it's the shipper's responsibility to provide the shipment approval number to the receiving FFL, and include it with the shipment.

Is the receiving FFL at fault for receiving it without an approval number?

[kemasa]

It is not the fault of the receiving FFL, but that does not mean that they can ignore it.