CFLC Problems

[acespawnshop]

First off all I have to say is WOW, just WOW.

I have a customer who purchased a firearm online from a dealer here in California. The CA dealer is REFUSING to send me the required CFLC. We've gone 12 rounds via email about how simple the process is and how to complete it. We provided him a clickable link with step by step instructions on how to get us the approval number. The latest response is "JUST SHIP THE GUN BACK TO ME THEN"

My question is this, I've got a tainted paper trail here since he sent me a gun without the CFLC, now if I want to send him this gun in return I would have to include a CFLC with it also. I'm assuming he has a CFD number and he can provide us with it, but without it I'm stuck with this thing and I have a customer who cant DROS his gun. Is there any other reasonable way to resolve this for my customer.

He is NOT a C&R Licensee, for those wondering, he is an 01 licensee.

SIDE NOTE: He's being so uncooperative here so much so that he hung up the phone on the customer when the customer called him to get the CFLC.

[Librarian]

Well, the CFLC page is quite clear -

California Penal Code Section 27555 prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs, from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms.

You might consider making the BOF actually work for you rather than against, and give them a call.

[ripro75]

I ran into similar issue but from an out of state FFl, CA DOJ called him. Wasn’t long later that I received it.

[acespawnshop]

Yeah, This home skillet is an in state dealer!! That's what blows me away. He told the customer on the phone before he hung up on them he's "done with CA and their stupid BS"

[halifax]

As a condition of having an FFL, they are required to follow all the laws of the states they are dealing with. Threaten to notify the ATF. He may not care about CA but he may still want to keep the ATF happy.

[ripro75]

This whole thing is odd. Seems to me the CA dealer doesnt have his CFD# and is selling and/or shipping firearms without it. Otherwise, it should be a non issue for him to provide the CFLC#. He is clearly violating PC27555. Sounds like he needs a call from CA DOJ and BATF.

[rbetts]

^^^What he said^^^

[rbetts]

And time to name the knucklehead. . . .so we can stay away from him

[acespawnshop]

I emailed him at 1:03 pm yesterday asking for his CFD number. I have no response yet from him. Also, what's interesting is you do NOT need a CFD number do complete the CFLC process. I think one of these situations is possible.

1. Yes he is an 01 licensee in good standing, I EZ checked it. He never completed the required steps to become a dealer in CA and was using his FFL to enhance his personal collection. This seems plausible based on a conversation with the customer who told us he said that this gun was a personal gun of his anyhow. We told him before he shipped it we would accept it from a non-licensee just provide a clear copy of your state ID/DL.

2. He got his FFL and has only been selling online. I would imagine he would still need to get a local business license as that's something ATF checks for in an audit. One of the first things my inspector asked was "print out that DOJ page thing that has all your info on it that shows all your CA stuff is current for me will ya?" This situation doesn't seem likely.

3. He's a home based FFL that is just out of touch with how stuff operates. Based on conversations with the customer, his location, and name on the FFL this is most likely. Its not excusable for his actions but does provide us with some sort of reasoning to why he's acting so.

4. Based off his location, address, and street view of google maps this guy is some sort of David Koresh compound living, aliens are coming and Hillary is their leader guy who doesn't trust the Gub'ment. This scenario would be unlikely and provided for comical reasons, but still there is that .00001% its correct and we've stumbled on the next ATF Waco disaster.

[acespawnshop]

UPDATE, The plot just thickened it the most thickest of ways. Unable to comment more right now. But I will let everyone know what happened when it can.

[Tyke8319]

You've got me holding my breath...

[kemasa]

If the customer paid by credit card, then they should contest it and you can turn the firearm over to the police (or out of state).

[acespawnshop]

Being that we haven't outted the FFL, I don't see an issue here. The FFL who sent it to us does not have an active CFD.

I had to contact our field rep because after him not wanting to provide us with their CFD it puts us in a pickle with the customer. I cant DROS this gun nor can I ship the gun back since I can't CFLC it to him either. I told her about all this on the phone and she did some digging around and confirmed the FFL was still valid with ATF (we knew this) and his CFD was inactive. She became quite concerned that there was a dealer here in CA without all the proper licensing and will be looking into this. For now she asked us to sit tight on the gun and that's where we are. So for now the gun is in limbo and our customer has paid for it on gunbroker. Fortunately I don't think he paid all that much as it's a not so special lever action. But still its not right that he cant DROS the gun he paid for because of the unlawfulness of the seller on gunbroker.

[SkyHawk]

[taperxz]

If the customer paid by credit card, then they should contest it and you can turn the firearm over to the police (or out of state).

Actually, its called a charge back. Just and FYI. It takes a couple months to finalize but the money will not bed held against your credit line. If the customer used an ATM card, it will take a couple months to get your money back worst case.

My wife works for a major CC company and the lending bank will go back in forth with the issuing bank with the VISA/Mastercard companies as ultimate arbitrators.